Lalvin RC212 & N requirements

jet · Apr 30, 2011

The documentation for this yeast says that it has high nitrogen requirements. What exactly does that mean in practical terms (i.e. how do I make sure I meet those requirements)? I'm sure there is a technical ppm FAN requirement, but I am looking for something a little more real-world for the home winemaker.

TIA

Tom · Apr 30, 2011

1/2tsp of yeast nutrient per gallon

jet · Apr 30, 2011

Tom said:
1/2tsp of yeast nutrient per gallon

I assume that's an extra 1/2t, since the standard dosage is 1t/gl.

Tom · Apr 30, 2011

yes 1/2 tsp more in the begining. Extra will not hurt it as will settle out.
DO NOT add during fermentation as you will get a volcano.

jet · May 1, 2011

Tom said:
yes 1/2 tsp more in the begining. Extra will not hurt it as will settle out.
DO NOT add during fermentation as you will get a volcano.

That shouldn't be a problem. I always add all the nutrient along with the meta and everything else the night before I pitch the yeast.

Thanks

djrockinsteve · May 1, 2011

Skeeter pee is the only must I add nutrient half in beginning and half later on and yes add slowly if during fermentation. A volcano is a big possibility.

All other wines I add it all up front. If you encounter a tough wine to ferment dry you may add a teaspoon (6 gallons) of super ferment when it reaches 1.000 if you wish it to be real dry.

jet · Jun 27, 2011

I cannot say if it was nutrient related, but my first experiences with RC212 were not good.

I started with a merlot. I used a full dose of DAP and 1.5x of yeast nutrient. At pressing, it had a significant H2S stink. The following week I started a cab (my original plan was a blend). For it, I upped it to a 2x dose of nutrient, but still had the same result. Cap temp only made it into the low 80's, so heat should not have been an issue.

JohnT · Jun 27, 2011

I use rc-212 on most of my reds. In the beginning, I also had some of the H2s problems. Cured this by giving the wine a "double dose" of fermax. Since then, H2S problems have been very rare occurences.

robie · Jun 27, 2011

That yeast definietly needs to be fed. To make a starter, I use Go-Ferm. To feed the yeast later on, I use Fermaid K. There are other good products available from different mfg.

Lots of times it is the timing of when you apply the nutrients. If you add it all up front, you could easily have a problem after about day 4 or 5. (That sounds like what may have happened to you.) If you add too late in fermentation, it will likely not be used up and will ultimately get racked out. It is not good to have a nutrient hanging around for something else to munch on it later on.

Just be sure to follow the directions on the nutrient. Don't make the mistake in thinking all is well just because lots of foaming and bubbling is taking place; feed when it is time to feed.

jet · Jun 27, 2011

I added all the DAP and yeast nutrient before pitching the yeast. I have never had an issue doing this with whites, but these two batches were my first reds. The yeast nutrient is the house brand from my LHBS, and the only instruction it has is dosage.

They both started fine, with only slight warning signs prior to pressing. I pressed the merlot after 3.5 days and the cab after 4.5.

djrockinsteve · Jun 27, 2011

I have not encountered any problems with the Lalvin yeasts. I do stir them often to release extra CO2 and I do add my nutrient up front.

When I have fermented my reds they are almost always at cooler temps. Not sure if that might help as fermentation would be a bit slower.

jet · Jun 28, 2011

I thought higher temps were supposed to help with extraction in reds. That is why I waited for warmer weather. I stayed within the optimum temp range, so I thought it would be fine.

I have been reading all I can on RC212 and nutrition. Opinions run the whole spectrum, from the guy who condemns nutrients as newfangled, interventionist winemaking to the guy who uses a full dose at pitching and 1/2 dose every day until SG 1.020, all the way to the guy who says no amount of conventional is sufficient and you must use a high octane nutrient/energizer. At this point, I am totally confused, and I still have two batches I'm trying to save.

Midwest Vintner · Jun 28, 2011

Why not find a different strain? This one sounds troublesome.

ibglowin · Jun 28, 2011

I used RC-212 last year on my 200lbs of Cab Sauv and Merlot from fresh grapes. I rehydrated with Go-Ferm, added Opti-Red as well as Fermaid-K to the must. No problems of any sort. Wine is very fruit forward with a wonderful bouquet and mouthfeel.

I just bought 8 pack more for this year. Very happy with the results. YMMV as they say.

jet · Jun 28, 2011

Midwest Vintner said:
Why not find a different strain? This one sounds troublesome.

I just want to make every reasonable effort to ID the cause of my problem. I don't want to blame the yeast and next season have the same problem with a different strain because the yeast was not to blame.

It seems these days, the more I read, the more I learn how little I know. The Scott Labs Handbook says that DAP should never be added early in fermentation. :slp

djrockinsteve · Jun 28, 2011

Boy you ain't kidding. The more I learn the less I know. I agree find the cause and fix it. I use a variety of lalvin yeasts and no problems. To my advantage maybe is stirring often maybe 6 times a day. Gentle stirs. Plus I prefer to ferment at cool temps. (skeeter pees exempt).

You could if you haven't already is download the free book by Lum Eisenman Home Wine Making Manual. You can find the link on our home page. An older book but excellent knowledge. Again the more you learn......

deboard · Jun 28, 2011

I must just be lucky, I've used RC212 twice now, once on my syrah bucket from Midwest, and just recently on half of my Corot Noir pail from Walkers. Both times I had no problems, but I did put a good dose of yeast nutrient in.

jet · Jun 28, 2011

djrockinsteve said:
Boy you ain't kidding. The more I learn the less I know. I agree find the cause and fix it. I use a variety of lalvin yeasts and no problems. To my advantage maybe is stirring often maybe 6 times a day. Gentle stirs. Plus I prefer to ferment at cool temps. (skeeter pees exempt).

You could if you haven't already is download the free book by Lum Eisenman Home Wine Making Manual. You can find the link on our home page. An older book but excellent knowledge. Again the more you learn......

I'm kind of a geek and read just about anything wine related I can get my hands on. The problem I'm facing now is conflicting info. I was using DAP based on a Winemaker mag recommendation, then today I read the Scott Labs handbook that says never add DAP near the beginning of fermentation. Based on recent events, I'm inclined to believe Scott Labs, but I'd rather not have to ruin a batch or two to find out who I can trust.

Midwest Vintner · Jun 29, 2011

jet said:
I'm kind of a geek and read just about anything wine related I can get my hands on. The problem I'm facing now is conflicting info. I was using DAP based on a Winemaker mag recommendation, then today I read the Scott Labs handbook that says never add DAP near the beginning of fermentation. Based on recent events, I'm inclined to believe Scott Labs, but I'd rather not have to ruin a batch or two to find out who I can trust.

You and me both. lol. I don't trust the mag's that well either, but some typically have some articles written by people in the industry with real knowledge. Gotta weed through what's truth and what's not. I too use mostly lalvin yeasts. I have had only a few h2s problems ever, which were caused by specific things in a batch and not consecutive.

Lurker · Jun 30, 2011

I have used 212 quite a few times in the past, less now but never had a problem with it. Had I had a problem one time, I would never use it again. There are just too many diff. yeasts to stick with one that has given me a problem. I have been using Premier Cuvee a lot lately. It is a little slower and takes a little longer with less foam, but I like that. Yes, I do use nutrient.

Lalvin RC212 & N requirements

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