Critical look at each other's wine

My winemaking buddy (4Score) and I detect some faults in our wine that we made this season. We have decided to taste each other's wines this morning and critique it. The goal is to get an independent look at each other's wine to determine if any intervention is necessary. This is our second vintage together; we get the grapes, crush, ferment, press together, then we split the wine and it goes to our own garage wineries. We did 3 tons together this season; Zin, Mourvèdre, Barbera from three local vineyards.

Since this is such a fun forum and I know that 4Score will be game, I'm going to propose to him that we document the findings, raw, honest, good or bad on this thread. Doing so will also open the discussion to possible "what to do" to remedy what we have detected in our own wine.

Interesting proposition! That since most posts here advocate ones own taste as the guide to making the perfect wine! But human nature being what it is, there is always the desire/need to please. Thus the outreach for other opinions and even the occasional critique. The only requirement is that one be ready to accept what one hears as no more than (hopefully) honest/constructive analysis.

Pictures first. 4Score at the NorCal winery. I built this "wine box" in my garage for the aging/storage of wine.

This is the Anderson Hills / 4Score winery. 4Score built a separate room in the garage. Nicely done and very cleanly executed.

It appears that the cheese and charcuterie follow you wherever you go!

You guys both have great spaces. Have you thought of going in together and renting a larger space perhaps where you can spread out a bit more? Perhaps a climate controlled storage space of sorts?

4Score is an excellent winemaking partner. While I'm decent with the mechanics of winemaking, 4Score has a great palate and the ability to translate what he his smelling and tasting to the spoken/written word. We promised each other that we would be honest with our opinions with each other's wine.

Up first for 4Score was the Barbera. This is the wine he had concern about and I smelled his concern immediately. His Barbera is in a new 60 gallon American oak. The smell is earthy, musty, damp wood smelling, that blew off after ten min or so. We have no idea what is driving this (I have the same) and will save this for further discussion. The Barbera was fruity, hints of blueberry, strawberry and full of flavor, with a nice finish that really seemed to linger.

Next was a second year 8 gallon of the same Barbera. It was everything that the 60 gallon barrel was but none of the nose. This wine that was excellent, in every aspect. I really couldn't discern any difference in flavor between the 60 and the 8, just the smell.

The Mourvèdre is in a second year 30g American oak. Very nice floral smell, none of the earthiness that was prevalent in the Barbera. Strong tannins, good acid, tasted strawberry and it was full of flavor. Nothing wrong with this wine that I could see.

The Mourvèdre Rose was next and like mine it had a funk on the nose. Not super strong, not foul or rotten egg smelling, just an essence of funky wet towel that was wrapped up for too long smell. Taste was very citrusy, grapefruit taste that was bright and light.

Final was the Zin Rose, which had little to no nose. It was clean, crisp, clear. Not a lot of flavors, but a light citrusy pleasant wine.

Two things that need to be understood and or addressed in my opinion is the musty barrel smell in the 60g Barbera and the funkiness of the Mourvèdre Rose.

ibglowin said:

You guys both have great spaces. Have you thought of going in together and renting a larger space perhaps where you can spread out a bit more? Perhaps a climate controlled storage space of sorts?

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It is hard to beat the convenience of the garage and the only incremental expense is the addional electricity to power the air conditioning in the summer, which runs <$100 year.

Okie Dokie....

Thanks Norcal!

We started at Norcal's K&K Winery. I was especially interested in trying his Zin from the new 60 gallon barrel. We purchased these barrels together so I was real curious if there would be a "funk" on the wine in this barrel (like my Barbera in my 60 g). The Zin grapes we sourced were not the best or up to our standards, but we took them anyway. Many clusters were combinations of raison and smallish berries. Although we attempted to sort before crush, I'm sure there was an impact. We got far from our anticipated juice volume, but we still went forward. Norcal planned this Zin for the big 60-gallon barrel so after extracting enough for our Rose project, we filled his barrel 1st. I've got about 15 gallons in carboys. The juice seemed pretty good so we proceeded. I was pleasantly surprised to find a pretty darn good Zin aging in his barrel! I also found NO funky smell, like my barrel. The nose was fairly neutral, not real fruity - in fact you had to hunt a little to find the nose. Let's say it had a faint fruit smell. In baseball terms, the taste was a single up the middle. It was refreshing and light, with no real traditional "spice" component as I would really like to find in a Zin. Visually, very light for a Zin. We picked at 23.5 brix so maybe that is supporting these traits. Definite red fruit, but light. I think the French would like this wine! I like it and I'm interested to se what several more months of new American oak will contribute along the way.

One note here.....chilly morning here when tasting. Probably just under 50 in Norcal's winery. These wines were probably mid to upper 50's and I assume some tightness and loss of true expression until they warm up. But, we had time constraints and had to move along with what we had.

Next, we moved on to a Barbera kept in a glass carboy. Bright and fruity, medium-dark color. Tasted slightly "yeasty" still as this is still very young, but it's easy to distill the direction this wine is going. NICE! Fruity - I get red fruit and nice acid balance.

On to the Mourvedre in a French 30-gallon (2nd year). This wine is amazing already. Somewhat big and bold from drawing out a sizable amount of juice for another Rose project. On the nose though, funky-town! Very earthy. Interestingly, a lot of this smell seemed to blow off after a while in the glass. There was no earthiness to the taste. It was fruity - strawberry especially. The French barrel is already giving it some "softness" in the tannins - even though the acid level gives the anticipated bite. I guess that's a soft bite!

The Barbera in the 30-gallon American oak (2nd season) was delicious. There was a slight funk to the nose but it seemed to blow off as it sat in the glass. Taste was really special. A balance between fruit and tart that danced on the palate. the American oak comes through when compared to a sample out of the carboy. So, both YOUR barbera in a 2nd season barrel and MY barbera in a new 60-gallon American barrel have this similar funk nose. Hard to figure that one out, as barbera in glass has no problem!

Zin Rose - smelled great - citrus smell galore - apple and pear elements (in smell and taste) for sure. Very crisp wine that really wakes up the mouth. Color was very light - maybe too light for what you're after I think.

Mourvedre Rose - Light fruit smell especially compared to the Zin Rose. A light funk smell that also appears to blow off with some time and swirling. Light taste but still crisp fruit. Not a big rose for sure. A very small back sweetening may benefit this wine by making it a bit more layered and interesting. It was nice and refreshing.

I feel better after doing this little exercise. I'm thinking my Barbera is really not a lost cause (the smell). As Norcal suggested, I bottled a little of the Barbera from my 60 g barrel. I'll open that bottle in a couple weeks to assess the nose and compare it to a fresh sample from the barrel. We suspect it will be fine. We also have a small amount of copper sulfate coming for just some smell experiments. It will be interesting to see if a little copper sulfate will take the funk out of the nose. That doesn't mean I would add copper to the wine, but it would at least help explain things.

Can't wait to see how the copper sulfite test goes. We'll have to post tasting videos!

It has been suggested by a commercial winemaker that the barrel mustiness, wet wood, wet cardboard smell could be TCA (mold) in the barrel. Does anyone have experience with this?

Was this a new or used barrel?

I have a real good network and I talked to a couple very respected winemakers today. One volunteered to come over and smell, taste the barrels. His conclusion was a mild case of H2S, which will "blow off" when racked before bottling.

He also didn't find a fault in the Mourvedre Rose. Rather, you are smelling the citrus in the varietal and that not everyone is going to like it, but he did.

It is often helpful to get a couple extra noses involved especially when they are experienced and finely tuned. I tend to ignore the ones with comments like "It smells good/bad" or "You know, this isn't bad." Networking definitely pays off.

NorCal said:

I have a real good network and I talked to a couple very respected winemakers today. One volunteered to come over and smell, taste the barrels. His conclusion was a mild case of H2S, which will "blow off" when racked before bottling.

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Any risk to just racking now to remove the H2S smell and putting it back into the barrel? I've read (and had a little experience with my 2013 Petite Sirah), that the longer you let that sit, the harder it is to remove.

Boatboy24 said:

Any risk to just racking now to remove the H2S smell and putting it back into the barrel? I've read (and had a little experience with my 2013 Petite Sirah), that the longer you let that sit, the harder it is to remove.

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I've already racked twice since putting it in the barrel, so I guess the risk would be exposure. I've been accused of being "heavy handed" in my approach to winemaking; if it is broke, I want to fix it. I think I'm going to take his advice for now and "don't worry about it" and address it, if necessary, closer to bottling. I may also send a sample to a lab, just to confirm.

Organized disorder!! I love it.... Storage units are right nice. General question tho,,, When storing/aging in the bottle, is it not recommended that bottles be horizontal to keep cork wet, or are you using synthetic corks which don't care??

Awesome Wine

Loved this post about your wine from the vine and NOT from a kit. Don't get me wrong, I do Kits, but I, 90% of the time, do fresh fruit and grapes. I am waiting patiently to see how the Copper addition affects the wine. I love your storage boxes and I'm considering making a couple for myself. I try to do 1500 to 2000 bottles a year so, I'll need a large storage box.
Thank You for posting the pictures and information. Loved it.

ibglowin said:

Was this a new or used barrel?

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Mine is a new 60 gallon, Norcal has two 30 gallon barrels that exhibit this off-smell.