2018 Muscadines

[M38A1]

11:00am numbers.... We're at 2.5 days now and not seeing what I thought would be some good movements re: SG. All three had a light layer of foam on top again. Temps were 75/76*F across all three.

One big question is just 'how' to stir and take readings. For my pH meter, it gets cleaned in Distilled Water and then into the primary for testing. For my stirring spoon and thermometer, I wash it in a solution called Easy Clean which is new to me I got at the brew store, where I shake it dry leaving only surface tension of whatever remains on the item that winds up in the primary. It has no ingredients listed but smells like chlorine when dissolved in a one gallon bucket. Last year I had been using Campden Tabs crushed and dissolved but the brew guys said that kills the yeast from whatever Campden is still on the equipment going into the primary. And I see yeast particulates sticking to my metal spoon when I remove it from the primary. I'm so confused at the moment on what to do properly.....

Roughly 60hrs post pitch--->

Bucket #1
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.5 / 3.4 / 3.3
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.0 / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.095
Acid: .65%/ Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #2
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.0 / 3.0
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.7 / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.095
Acid: .63%/ Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #3
Volume: 4-5/8 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.2 / 2.9
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.8 / Not Measured
SG: 1.097 / 1.095 / 1.094
Acid: .50%/ Not Measured / Not Measured

 

[garymc]

You could probably benefit from searching here for articles on muscadine wine. I recommend Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast. It eats some of the acid and leaves more of the fruity flavor and aroma of the muscadines. Muscadines are acidic, so you're not going to resolve that completely by delaying harvest. The hulls are tough, so you want to crush, ferment primary, then press at 1.030 or 1.020 SG. Your pectic enzyme should be added with the Campden or K-meta immediately upon crushing. The addition of water is not uncommon in making muscadine wine to reduce the acidity, especially with strong flavored wild muscadines. And, of course, backsweetening is another way to deal with acidity as well as the hotness of high alcohol content. I see people writing about using potassium carbonate or bicarbonate and then cautioning about messing up the flavor with too much. So, I go with 71B-1122 yeast and using simple syrup to reach the starting gravity and inverted sugar syrup for backsweetening.

 

[M38A1]

Thank you! I'll take all that into consideration on the next batch from the 48 or so lbs I have in the freezer. I just ran out of primaries to do it all at once.

Can you tell me the difference between simple syrup and inverted sugar syrup? I'm guessing simple syrup is 1:1 ratio of water to sugar and inverted is 1 part water to 2 parts sugar? This will be another term I'm adding to my list.

 

[sour_grapes]

Can you tell me the difference between simple syrup and inverted sugar syrup? I'm guessing simple syrup is 1:1 ratio of water to sugar and inverted is 1 part water to 2 parts sugar? This will be another term I'm adding to my list.

AFAIK, those terms are synonymous and do not depend on the ratio.

 

[M38A1]

Re: the Easy Clean, I sent a request to LD Carlson about the product and here's their reply:

"The Easy Clean is an oxygen based cleaner that contains sodium percarbonates and sodium sulfate. You may be mistaking the sodium sulfate smell as chlorine. It does not contain chlorine and because of it being an oxygen based cleaner actually helps yeast during fermentation, not harm it"

Does this pass the "smell" test to you all as the experts, and is it OK to clean stirring spoons and tools and then use them directly in process?

 

[M38A1]

I'm thinking give this another 24hrs and if the numbers don't start changing do a re-pitch of the yeast? There's a foamy cap on top of each bucket and it's making bubbles on the surface and generating either humidity or heat when I get my hand close that cap layer. I'm thinking although I started with hot water in the cup and let it cool to the yeast 'range' then added yeast to the cup that the cup cooled down too quickly in that 15minutes? Maybe put the cup in hot water to act as a bath if anyone suggests I re-pitch? Or is this just kind of normal that sometimes it's on it's own schedule? Last year my PF (to 1.03SG) was done in 5, 4 and 7 days for the three batches.

Roughly 72hrs post pitch--->

Bucket #1
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.5 / 3.4 / 3.3 / 3.2
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.0 / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.095 / 1.090
Acid: .65%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #2
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 3.0
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.7 / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.09
Acid: .63%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #3
Volume: 4-5/8 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.2 / 2.9 / 2.9
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.8 / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.097 / 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.090
Acid: .50%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

 

[garymc]

Google is your friend. Simple syrup is 1 cup of water and 2 cups of sugar. Or you can go by weight and it's a little more sugar to make twice the weight of water. Boil the water, add the sugar, stir and heat until it's a clear syrup.

Inverted sugar syrup is the same thing except you add a small amount of acid, such as citric, ascorbic, etc. The acid triggers the conversion of the sugar to inverted sugar. It tastes sweeter, ounce for ounce and may help in bringing back the fruit taste in a backsweetened wine. The amount of acid needed would vary depending on the volume of syrup you're making. You can google for recipes and proportions.

 

[M38A1]

Finally some movement in the right direction. The yeast still has a nice cap on top but seems a tad bit smaller than yesterday. Is this normal and I should just keep on letting it run without worry?

4 days post pitch--->

Bucket #1
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.5 / 3.4 / 3.3 / 3.2 / 3.2
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.0 / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.095 / 1.090 / 1.06
Acid: .65%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #2
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 2.9
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.7 / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.09 / 1.07
Acid: .63%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #3
Volume: 4-5/8 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.2 / 2.9 / 2.9 / 2.9
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.8 / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.097 / 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.090 / 1.070
Acid: .50%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

 

[Johnd]

Finally some movement in the right direction. The yeast still has a nice cap on top but seems a tad bit smaller than yesterday. Is this normal and I should just keep on letting it run without worry?

4 days post pitch--->

Bucket #1
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.5 / 3.4 / 3.3 / 3.2 / 3.2
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.0 / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.095 / 1.090 / 1.06
Acid: .65%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #2
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 2.9
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.7 / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.09 / 1.07
Acid: .63%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Bucket #3
Volume: 4-5/8 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.2 / 2.9 / 2.9 / 2.9
BRIX: 24.8 / 24.8 / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured
SG: 1.097 / 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.090 / 1.070
Acid: .50%/ Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured / Not Measured

Now you’re rolling! Don’t forget your second nutrient dose, you definitely don’t want to add DAP too late, and since that’s what you have, get it in there.

Yes, the cap may go away entirely when you get rolling, EC-1118 is low foaming.

 

[M38A1]

Now you’re rolling! Don’t forget your second nutrient dose, you definitely don’t want to add DAP too late, and since that’s what you have, get it in there.

Yes, the cap may go away entirely when you get rolling, EC-1118 is low foaming.

Thank you, John! I'll get that done now!

 

[Winwil22]

Thank you, John! I'll get that done now!

 

[Winwil22]

Guys...ive been taking notes. This is my first year of production on 400 vines that are 3 yrs old.

 

[M38A1]

Guys...ive been taking notes. This is my first year of production on 400 vines that are 3 yrs old.

Welcome!

Muscadines? Where are you located?

 

[Winwil22]

Welcome!

Muscadines? Where are you located?

20 miles south of greensboro. Nc

 

[M38A1]

20 miles south of greensboro. Nc

Roger that.... I saw Muscadines and was thinking SouthSouthWest US. Didn't know they were outside of this general area.

 

[Winwil22]

20 miles south of greensboro. Nc

Roger that.... I saw Muscadines and was thinking SouthSouthWest US. Didn't know they were outside of this general area.

Musci

Roger that.... I saw Muscadines and was thinking SouthSouthWest US. Didn't know they were outside of this general area.

 

[Winwil22]

Musci

The mother vine of all muscadines is located at Hatters nc

 

[M38A1]

....and we're off to the races I think.

5 days post pitch--->

Bucket #1
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.5 / 3.4 / 3.3 / 3.2 / 3.2 / 3.3
SG: 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.095 / 1.090 / 1.060 / 1.050

Bucket #2
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 2.9 / 3.1
SG: 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.090 / 1.070 / 1.052

Bucket #3
Volume: 4-5/8 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.2 / 2.9 / 2.9 / 2.9 / 3.0
SG: 1.097 / 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.090 / 1.070 / 1.055

 

[Johnd]

....and we're off to the races I think.

5 days post pitch--->

Bucket #1
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.5 / 3.4 / 3.3 / 3.2 / 3.2 / 3.3
SG: 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.095 / 1.090 / 1.060 / 1.050

Bucket #2
Volume: 5.0 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 3.0 / 2.9 / 3.1
SG: 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.095 / 1.090 / 1.070 / 1.052

Bucket #3
Volume: 4-5/8 gallons
pH: 3.2 / 3.2 / 2.9 / 2.9 / 2.9 / 3.0
SG: 1.097 / 1.095 / 1.094 / 1.090 / 1.070 / 1.055

Your SG numbers are dropping nicely, fermentation is doing well.

Regarding your pH readings, they are skewed when taking readings from an active fermentation as the CO2 present in the wine causes false readings. If you want to take the pH during fermentation, take a sample out, put in a small vessel, and shake it bunch to release CO2, then you can get an accurate reading.

 

[M38A1]

Your SG numbers are dropping nicely, fermentation is doing well.

Regarding your pH readings, they are skewed when taking readings from an active fermentation as the CO2 present in the wine causes false readings. If you want to take the pH during fermentation, take a sample out, put in a small vessel, and shake it bunch to release CO2, then you can get an accurate reading.

Ok. Do I toss the sample or pour it back in? I'll do that with tonights measurements.