2nd racking / degassing and bung advice

[Johnd]

I have 2 questions:

If we stir the primary to introduce oxygen, why doesn't stirring the wine later to degas not introduce oxygen?

How about these headspace eliminators instead of topping up? Obviously you would need some sort of vacuum pump to use them but they are never mentioned when this topic comes up.
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Stirring your wine does expose it to oxygen, we count on lots of CO2 being emitted during degassing to help protect it. Also, the sulfite that you have added, or will add shortly after degassing, will scavenge the oxygen out of the wine and protect it from oxidation.

Some folks use the headspace eliminator instead of topping up or selecting properly sized vessels, and report good results. Personally, I find that it's much easier to just rack down or top up and keep the carboys full, it's not like you're wasting any wine, you still will get to drink it.....................

 

[mc7315]

I also let time do the degassing for me. I have an all-in-one wine pump and it has been a lifesaver for me. I bought mine around 6 years ago and I can sincerely say I would not be making wine today if I did not own one - in only for the reduced efforts in bottling. With the all-in-one pump, I feel I am degassing with each racking and all of the ways through to bottling!

 

[reeflections]

Stirring your wine does expose it to oxygen, we count on lots of CO2 being emitted during degassing to help protect it. Also, the sulfite that you have added, or will add shortly after degassing, will scavenge the oxygen out of the wine and protect it from oxidation.

Some folks use the headspace eliminator instead of topping up or selecting properly sized vessels, and report good results. Personally, I find that it's much easier to just rack down or top up and keep the carboys full, it's not like you're wasting any wine, you still will get to drink it.....................

Thanks for the response. I have been using the AIO also I haven't had to degas by hand, I was just curious.

When I got the AIO pump, I also bought a few of the Headspace Eliminators since I don't have that many different size carboys and the topping up would often need as much as a gallon in a 5 gal carboy. I don't worry about wasting other wine, just changing the flavor. I guess after I have been doing this longer, I will have more of the same kind of wine for topping, but at this point I am still experimenting to see what I like best.

I can't report on results of using the Headspace Eliminators because I have nothing to compare them to, but with the pump right there, they sure are easier than any other methods I've seen.

 

[Ajmassa]

I have 2 questions:

If we stir the primary to introduce oxygen, why doesn't stirring the wine later to degas not introduce oxygen?

How about these headspace eliminators instead of topping up? Obviously you would need some sort of vacuum pump to use them but they are never mentioned when this topic comes up.
View attachment 61605

headspace eliminators with the one way valves are awesome. I don’t like them for long term. But perfect for a short term fix. Also before them I used the wine saver hand pump tool Vacuvin. The rubber piece that’s meant for the bottle opening fit around that nipple inside a universal carboy bung. then can use to degas and remove headspace o2 in a carboy. Doesn’t last tho. just repump every couple days.

 

[Ajmassa]

I see @Johnd already answered this in a nice easily understood direct response. But I had typed this out so posting anyway

@reeflections you can’t really introduce o2 with co2 present . When degassing once co2 is gone you’ll see the foamy fizz turn to larger o2 bubbles. that’s when ya stop otherwise you will introduce o2. This is why I don’t degas manually and allow it to disipate over time. A byproduct of Co2 is That’s it’s body armor for o2. And O2 exposure binds up existing sulphites in the wine. Once enough sulphite is bound up the o2 exposure would start to oxidize the wine. So Maintaining proper sulphite (so2) prevents this. Removing headspace slows the rate the so2 becomes bound b/c prolonged o2 exposure is a killer.

So to break it down
-sulphites protect the wine from all
-co2 protects against o2 exposure
-O2 exposure binds up sulphites
- Low sulphites allow o2 exposure to oxidize wine & be more susceptible to bacteria.

Proper sulphite levels are key. But also good sanitation practices, headspace removal, temperature, the abv, acid levels, and co2 can all affect the rate sulphite levels drop.

 

[purpletongue]

Teflon tape has lower adhesion than vinyl electrical tape. If the stores aren’t open on a holiday, electrical is second best, in which case actively stretch it so it tries to shrink back on itself.
Another choice is to “float” a food grade bag/ tube of water in the carboy. Have been tempted to heat seal a zip lock into tubes, but haven’t thought through how to remove em. Large stainless variable exist. High barrier wine bags may be an actual fix for home scale variable capacity.

So I used the electrical which seems to work OK. However, it seems to be falling off a bit and I'm worried about any of the adhesive tainting the wine. I think I may replace it with plastic wrap for now and then try to get my hands on a very large bung.

I may have to find a way to fill the headspace for the final rack as you suggest. As I'll likely have to rack up to a 23L unfortunately.

 

[purpletongue]

headspace eliminators with the one way valves are awesome. I don’t like them for long term. But perfect for a short term fix. Also before them I used the wine saver hand pump tool Vacuvin. The rubber piece that’s meant for the bottle opening fit around that nipple inside a universal carboy bung. then can use to degas and remove headspace o2 in a carboy. Doesn’t last tho. just repump every couple days.

I can buy a 18.9L carboy for $20 used for my final racking. Or I can buy a can of inert gas to use with my 23L carboys for $30. Any suggestions?

 

[Rice_Guy]

I can buy a 18.9L carboy for $20 used for my final racking. Or I can buy a can of inert gas to use with my 23L carboys for $30. Any suggestions?

The general experience with gas is that it is a short term, couple of weeks fix. You will find that we sometimes visit others and say too much head space, well normally the wine is drinkable with slight oxidation.
i would get the extra carboy and I would look at a 3 liter liter bag in box for extra wine. (see “who uses wine bag?” or “leftover wine after racking” thread). Eventually everyone wants more containers.
.
A 16 oz zip lock bag(s) filled/ sealed with water would last longer than gas.

 

[purpletongue]

A 16 oz zip lock bag(s) filled/ sealed with water would last longer than gas.

How do you get that through the small mouth of the carboy?

 

[purpletongue]

Good news, I got a #12 stopper at a nearby supply and it fits perfect. So that's good. I also asked the winemaker there and he said the kits he sells and most of them are actually formulated to be topped off with water during racking for a final 23L and the amount you top off with won't really dilute it noticeably. Not sure I agree as a newbie but I must say he was surrounded by almost a hundred carboys in various stages. Just food for thought.

 

[dswendell]

Do you all think the 200-300$ is worth it for a pump? I’ve always been curious, never pulled the trigger. I’m a 1 kit a year guy. Maybe two.

I’m sure a big help is just the bottling and racking convenience, I don’t really mind lifting the carboys up though.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Your question is “how much joy do I get out of toys?” The RICE out of rice-guy spent a few decades in a pilot plant creating toys so it was easy to justify by now 3 vacuum pumps ($20 each) and 2 peristaltic pumps (less than $50) and a BonVino with a centrifugal pump.

Do you all think the 200-300$ is worth it for a pump? . . . . . I’m a 1 kit a year guy. Maybe two.

The cost effective answer is make more wine to amortize the toys.

 

[Padrino]

If you only do one batch a season, I'd stay with siphoning from the carboy. To spent that kind of money, unless you want a new toy, then go for it. are you in a group or know's someone to let you use there's and exchange a bottle. Cheers.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I should second @Padrino ,,, in this part of the Midwest I am part of two Vinters clubs and we have other clubs within 3 to 4 hours. They are a good way to try out equipment and in the case of my BonVino buy the used tool rather than getting new.

 

[DizzyIzzy]

I should second @Padrino ,,, in this part of the Midwest I am part of two Vinters clubs and we have other clubs within 3 to 4 hours. They are a good way to try out equipment and in the case of my BonVino buy the used tool rather than getting new.

RiceGuy...............where in the midwest are you located? I live in Knox county, Ohio...............................Dizzy

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Do you all think the 200-300$ is worth it for a pump? I’ve always been curious, never pulled the trigger. I’m a 1 kit a year guy. Maybe two.

I’m sure a big help is just the bottling and racking convenience, I don’t really mind lifting the carboys up though.

Remember if you have any questions or concerns - feel free to PM me directly- The right tool for the right job - makes the job alot more enjoyable to accomplish.

 

[GaDawg]

How about these headspace eliminators instead of topping up? Obviously you would need some sort of vacuum pump to use them but they are never mentioned when this topic comes up.
View attachment 61605

I use my headspace eliminator all the time and I have never had a problem. Love that thing!

 

[GaDawg]

Remember if you have any questions or concerns - feel free to PM me directly- The right tool for the right job - makes the job alot more enjoyable to accomplish.

Steve, I had a bicycle accident and I no longer have a left rotator cuff, and I’m almost 73. Without you vacuum pump I would not be able to make wine.

 

[robert81650]

I agree.............the vacuum pump from Steve is the best thing I ever bought in wine making............

 

[KCCam]

Yes, me too. Almost as important as a carboy! If you make your own wine even partly to save money from buying inferior commercial wine, then what you save in one or two batches will pay for the pump. I’ve only completed 2 batches since I got mine, and almost finished 3 more. I will never do wine again without one. My back thanks me.