A 2020 Cab Franc journey with fellow WMT member

[VinesnBines]

How many Brutes did you need for 1200 lb crushed? They are 44 gallon Brutes? Did you use any dry ice ori regular ice?

 

[crushday]

How many Brutes did you need for 1200 lb crushed? They are 44 gallon Brutes? Did you use any dry ice ori regular ice?

@VinenBines - really great questions and ones I did't know how to answer before the trip. I intended on using dry ice but elected to find and purchase some locally. However, I visited 4 stores and none of them had dry ice. So, I had no choice by to take my chances on the way home. It worked out just fine. I brought six brutes and only used 4, ultimately. Four 44 gallon Brutes are filled to the top line. I did have about 10 gallons in a fifth Brute on the way home that I consolidated to the other four this morning.

Here's a pic...

 

[JamesdNorcal]

Thanks NorCal!

My wife and I had a great time at the Cab Franc crush yesterday, this is our first year making wine. Having the crusher/de-destemmer right there sure beats hand crushing them at home.

 

[crushday]

Looking for some help...I'm really outpaced by naiveté right now.

I have four 44 gallon Brutes full of must. I just ran some initial readings:

#1 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity 1.103)
#2 Brute: pH is 4.12 (gravity is 1.104)
#3 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity is 1.102)
#4 Brute: pH is 3.96 (gravity 1.104)

Do I want to add TA? If so, how much per Brute. Each has 35 gallons of must.

Thanks in advance.

 

[VinesnBines]

Thanks so much @crushday for the volume numbers. I’m planning on 300 lbs each of Cab Franc, PV, and Cab Sav. I have four 32 gallon Brutes which is plenty if the grapes come in far enough apart. I expect I’ll need a couple to be safe.

 

[stickman]

If it were me, I would be dropping the pH to 3.6, but you may want to wait for @NorCal to respond as he has experience with the vineyard. If you chicken out, you can always adjust one of the brutes and see how it compares to the others once fermentation is complete.

 

[crushday]

If it were me, I would be dropping the pH to 3.6, but you may want to wait for @NorCal to respond as he has experience with the vineyard. If you chicken out, you can always adjust one of the brutes and see how it compares to the others once fermentation is complete.

Stickman, good idea on adjusting one Brute, perhaps.

Question: Is the overall goal to have a pH of 3.6, meaning I can get there eventually? In other words, when is the best time to lower the pH. Now, throughout or just before the barrel? Does timing, in this case make a difference?

By the way, I also checked the temp of the must. I'm at 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast a few minutes ago: Avante.

I also added k-meta yesterday (1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of must = 50ppm).

Anything else?

 

[crushday]

Thanks NorCal!

My wife and I had a great time at the Cab Franc crush yesterday, this is our first year making wine. Having the crusher/de-destemmer right there sure beats hand crushing them at home.

James, did we meet yesterday? If so, help me remember...

 

[Boatboy24]

Stickman, good idea on adjusting one Brute, perhaps.

Question: Is the overall goal to have a pH of 3.6, meaning I can get there eventually? In other words, when is the best time to lower the pH. Now, throughout or just before the barrel? Does timing, in this case make a difference?

By the way, I also checked the temp of the must. I'm at 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast a few minutes ago: Avante.

I also added k-meta yesterday (1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of must = 50ppm).

Anything else?

If possible, it's preferred to adjust up front. Two reasons: 1) I think the consensus is that the acid integrates better, 2) getting the pH down now will make the wine less hospitable for bad bugs until you can safely add KMeta.

 

[JamesdNorcal]

Hi Crushday, probably not at least. We came towards the end, might have just missed you. and only got 100lbs, couple of buckets. I’ve been dealing with my home 90 barbera vines, 1st year they had grapes. 250lbs. Doing it all by hand..

My barbera is kinda the opposite on the PH. I had 26 brix, same as the cab franc. But my PH was 2.97 vs my readings on the cab franc PH came out to 3.82. I‘m wondering the same if I should add some tartaric acid to bring the ph down to 3.5-3.6?? (My barbera PH is up to 3.22 now after fermentation.)

Cheers, James

 

[CDrew]

#1 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity 1.103)
#2 Brute: pH is 4.12 (gravity is 1.104)
#3 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity is 1.102)
#4 Brute: pH is 3.96 (gravity 1.104)

Yes, but what's your starting TA?

I did some adjusting after fermentation last year with good results, so I don't think you have to get all the way to 3.6, but I would try and move it the majority of how far you want to go now.

For instance if your TA (not pH) is 4, I'd be comfortable adding 2g/L of finished wine and rechecking. The rate of pH response to this is not linear in my experience. You can always add a bit more to touch it up. IT's easy to do the numbers since is really is grams per liter. I hope you have a lot of tartaric acid on hand!

Dang, I'm feeling left out!

THat's a lot of wine. Best wishes and best of luck.

 

[crushday]

If possible, it's preferred to adjust up front. Two reasons: 1) I think the consensus is that the acid integrates better, 2) getting the pH down now will make the wine less hospitable for bad bugs until you can safely add KMeta.

Jim, certainly don't want to mess this up with over compensation. Can you help me calculate how much TA to add on the conservative? I can always add more...

Looking at the MoreWine FAQ's, here's some info I read:

"1 level teaspoon Tartaric Acid per US Gallon raises TA by +1.2 g/L (0.12%)

1 tsp Tartaric acid = 5 grams."

Honestly, I don't know how much 5gm (1sp) of TA lowers 1 US gallon if my pH is 4.0 as an example.

I have a scale too so I can weigh the amount of TA.

 

[crushday]

Yes, but what's your starting TA?

Drew, I don't know the starting TA or even how to test for that. I have a Vinmetrica 300 - do I use that to test?

Feeling like a super noob right now...

Hope you're enjoying your fishing trip.

 

[CDrew]

You can use just a pH meter and a stock solution of NaOH. Don’t instructions and chemicals come with the sc300?

 

[Boatboy24]

Jim, certainly don't want to mess this up with over compensation. Can you help me calculate how much TA to add on the conservative? I can always add more...

Looking at the MoreWine FAQ's, here's some info I read:

"1 level teaspoon Tartaric Acid per US Gallon raises TA by +1.2 g/L (0.12%)

1 tsp Tartaric acid = 5 grams."

Honestly, I don't know how much 5gm (1sp) of TA lowers 1 US gallon if my pH is 4.0 as an example.

I have a scale too so I can weigh the amount of TA.

Do you have a scale? It would be preferable to go by weight instead of teaspoons, but that would certainly work in a pinch.

General rule I use is 1g per liter (of estimated finished wine) will lower pH by 0.1. It isn't exact, and I often err on the conservative side and add half the calculated amount. You can always retest and adjust further.

 

[crushday]

You can use just a pH meter and a stock solution of NaOH. Don’t instructions and chemicals come with the sc300?

Lol... Clearly, I’m not technical. Some people geek out with all this stuff. For me, it’s a necessary task. Sounds like I have some homework to do as I have a significant investment sitting in four Brutes!

 

[JamesdNorcal]

here’s how I calc the TA.

1. Calibrate PH meter
2. Draw 10ML juice to tube/beaker
3. Add in .1n sodium hydroxide until PH =8.20
4. TA calc is ML of sodium hydroxide divide by ML of juice X .75..

for example, if it took 15ml sodium hydroxide to get to 8.20, the TA =15/10x.75 =1.125% TA

 

[CDrew]

This kind of runs through it. I do the titration with a burette not a syringe but either will work.



If you use the more general calculation, any amount of starting juice is fine.

 

[crushday]

Do you have a scale? It would be preferable to go by weight instead of teaspoons, but that would certainly work in a pinch.

General rule I use is 1g per liter (of estimated finished wine) will lower pH by 0.1. It isn't exact, and I often err on the conservative side and add half the calculated amount. You can always retest and adjust further.

Yes, I have a scale. I’ll half of the estimated TA on the finished with estimate.

Ok, here's my math (before I pull the trigger):

35 gallons of must = 27 gallons of finished wine (free run and pressed)
27 gallons of finished wine = 102 liters
pH is currently 4.05 (mean average all four Brutes)
Adding 200gm (.44 pound) of TA should lower pH to 3.85, which is halfway to goal (this is per Brute).

Here's my scale and TA at 200gm...

 

[CDrew]

So I read through the SC300 stuff. It should have come with chemicals in a concentration that makes the calcs even easier. If not, just the pH meter will do fine.

You really want to know your start point if possible. If you have a local wine lab that would work too. You have enough wine that spending $40 on testing is well worth it.

You could also ask @NorCal who has likely done this measurement already.

Leave for AK in the morning. I'll wave as we fly over seattle.

Like I said the response is not strictly linear.