Add grape to a a pail of Juice?

[Spencerthebuilder]

Hi, Chilean juice is just arriving. Graduating from a kit and about to try my first juice pail, a Chilean Cab. Would it be a good idea to maybe get a lug of grape as well? Remove stems, put in a blender and macerate, put solids in a sanitized paint strainer bag and add to the juice? Add yeast and go... More body and tannin release? Thanks

 

[salcoco]

use fermenting tannin powder does the same thing. I have had success using 4 oz dried elderberries for tannin addition. need to age at least a year or better.

 

[cmason1957]

Hi, Chilean juice is just arriving. Graduating from a kit and about to try my first juice pail, a Chilean Cab. Would it be a good idea to maybe get a lug of grape as well? Remove stems, put in a blender and macerate, put solids in a sanitized paint strainer bag and add to the juice? Add yeast and go... More body and tannin release? Thanks

Adding a lug of grapes isn't a terrible idea, but the process you suggest isn't what most of us would do. Remove stems, place grapes in a bucket, break the grapes open, add all to the juice. You don't want to break open the seeds, that would more than likely release very harsh, bitter tannins.

 

[1d10t]

You don't want to break open the seeds, that would more than likely release very harsh, bitter tannins.

It would keep his feet from getting purple though.

 

[hounddawg]

use fermenting tannin powder does the same thing. I have had success using 4 oz dried elderberries for tannin addition. need to age at least a year or better.

elderberries and sargents yellow crab apples,

 

[Ajmassa]

Congrats!
.
If asking,‘would adding a lug of grapes to my juice make a better wine’?
The answer is hell yes. More body and tannin like you said.
‘is it worth the extra work and $’?
also hell yes.

Tannin powder is nice and all, but it’s not fresh grapes. Assuming your Juice joint also sells grape lugs. If so then might as well go for it.

can be as simple as ya want it to be. tossing them in a bucket. Crush em up with the butt end of a 2x4. Then hand pick out the stems and combine with juice. Add yeast and can pick out straggler stems as you see em during the ferment- not vital to get them all right away, or at all for that matter. My family never removed them years ago.

for this amount (Chilean lugs are 18lbs) you can use a “brew bag” to line a bucket. They sell a 7.9gal bucket that works perfect. When finished just lift out the bag and squeeze the hell out of it.
Bada-bing bada-boom

 

[JohnT]

Definitely! I found that pil juice does not have the same body as whole fruit must. This is because the pail juice does not have the same maceration. As the other posts, I would advise to NOT use a blender. Use clean feet and a bucket to break up the grapes (after destemming).

 

[Mario Dinis]

If only I'd known ahead of time that this could be done. Always learning. Will definately do this with my next batch.

 

[Boatboy24]

My first foray into fresh juice is almost exactly as you're thinking - minus the blender. As others have suggested, just remove the grapes from the stems by hand and gently crush them - I used a potato masher and my hands with the grapes in the paint strainer bag. When you're done with fermentation, do as you would with a kit that has skins. Just remove the bag, squeeze out as much of the juice as you can from the bag, and you're off and running.

In my opinion, this is a great way to dip your toe in the pool of winemaking from grapes, without investing in all the equipment. It is definitely a step up from kits, and an all grape batch is a step or two further.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

Super! Then that's the plan. Add the potato masher, and the blender stays in the drawer. I'm hoping this makes the difference between an average table wine and one that is far better. A step toward the big boys, without the equipment expense. Might I freeze the grape, then thaw before adding to the bucket? Breaks down the fruit's cell walls, allowing better extraction? Or a waste of time? Thanks to all

 

[Mario Dinis]

Will a 7.9 gallon fermenter bucket hold the contents of a pail of juice plus a lug of grapes?

 

[Johnd]

Will a 7.9 gallon fermenter bucket hold the contents of a pail of juice plus a lug of grapes?

A lug (36#) will give you 3.3-3.5 gallons of must, plus your juice of 5 or 6 gallons, so probably not. You'll want to have some space (20%) for the cap to rise and punchdowns. The absolute minimum size you would want for a 5 gallon juice plus a lug is 10 gallons, or 11 gallons for a 6 gallon pail plus a lug. Safety would be to find something around 15 gallons...............

 

[Mario Dinis]

A lug (36#) will give you 3.3-3.5 gallons of must, plus your juice of 5 or 6 gallons, so probably not. You'll want to have some space (20%) for the cap to rise and punchdowns. The absolute minimum size you would want for a 5 gallon juice plus a lug is 10 gallons, or 11 gallons for a 6 gallon pail plus a lug. Safety would be to find something around 15 gallons...............

I'll probably have two 6 gallon juice pails. I'll probably split the lug between them. Maybe the 7.9 gal fermenters will be enough?

 

[Johnd]

I'll probably have two 6 gallon juice pails. I'll probably split the lug between them. Maybe the 7.9 gal fermenters will be enough?

6 + 1.75 = 7.75, giving you no room for your caps to rise. I’d say no.

 

[cmason1957]

Will a 7.9 gallon fermenter bucket hold the contents of a pail of juice plus a lug of grapes?

Experience has shown that you need at least a 10 gallon trash can to do this with. You almost need that much, even if you don't add the lug of grapes.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

Looks like it's time for a 20 gallon Brute. Then transfer to a more oxygen deprived carboy at 1.0 SG? Maybe 1@3, 1@5 gal carboys, one with oak, one without.
With a Cab or Malbec, should I buy some CH16, or just let it go?

 

[CDrew]

A 20 gallon brute is a good idea and will be useful for other things related to winemaking as you progress.

Your plan when to transfer into and air tight container is sound. I aim for Brix 0 which is the same as 1.000. Then it finishes the last point or so with air excluded.

You should definitely do a Malolactic fermentation. CH16 is a good choice in my experience, and lots of favorable experience/posts with VP41 as well.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

When doing the first racking, of coarse leave the gross lees. But should some of the cap be transferred? Still good stuff in those skins..

Malactic cultures seem to smooth and soften the edges, but also flatten the flavors and rob fruit flavor. Several opinions as I binge read this great site. Is this standard for traditional Cabernet Sauvignon?
Reading the instructions on the CH16, they want one to innoculate at the racking. But many here seem to co-innoculate
when they cast the yeast. Any preference and why? Preference on the dried vs. the liquid? both seem temperamental.

 

[CDrew]

Not exactly sure what you mean. Once you press, you are done with skins and shortly after done with lees too. Rack off the lees quickly, 1-3 days. Do not overthink this. Apply standard wine making procedures. It's just a juice bucket and maybe a box of grapes. You are not making Chateau Petrus.

CH16 is very forgiving. Inoculate when ever you want. I use it when it forms the first cap.

 

[Spencerthebuilder]

Sorry, a habitual problem is overthinking, often leading to information overload. But isn't this hobby about getting the last 5% out of what we do? So you co-inocculate and simply let it roll.