Adding Bentonite After Fermentation

[Katiejwine]

Hey guys, I've added bentonite after fermentation once before but I am wondering if anyone has any experience with hydrating it for 24 hours first and if that's necessary. Also, how long do you leave the bentonite in there to clarify; should I leave it in there for a few (4) days before racking again. Lastly, should I add the KMS when I add in the bentonite (I did this last time too)? Sorry for all the questions but super appreciate any help or advice! Thanks!!

 

[Jovimaple]

Welcome to WMT!

Bentonite is just clay, so I don't see any reason to hydrate it for 24 hours before using - you are hydrating it to make it easier to stir into the wine, not to start a colony like with yeast.

I use Kmeta after fermentation is complete, then again every 3 months, then when I bottle.

When I use fining agents, I plan them around my racking schedule and therefore I usually am adding Kmeta at the same time.

I haven't used bentonite post primary, but I have used Kieselsol and Chitosan. And I don't rack again for 3 months after I use them. Hope this makes sense!

 

[Scooter68]

YES - Hydrate it unless you like cleaning clumps of clay from your carboy or whatever you have your wine in now. And yes, waiting 24 hours allows ALL of the bentonite to hydrate.
Best process is VERY slowly add the bentonite to hot water as you stir it well. Then shake it well until you think you have it completely mixed. Let it set over night. I normally use something like an old peanut butter jar to mix and store it in overnight. You might even find using a spatula to mix it if you get any clumps
Bentonite works pretty well but it's a mess to prepare and just dumping into your carboy or bucket is only going to make a mess..
Normally I give the Bentonite about 7-14 days to do it's thing then rack off of it.
As to timing, some folks like to add it before they start fermentation, I prefer to let the yeast work on the fruit and break everything down before I add bentonite and drag everything to bottom of the container. There is no hard fast rule as to when to add it.

 

[wineview]

YES - Hydrate it unless you like cleaning clumps of clay from your carboy or whatever you have your wine in now. And yes, waiting 24 hours allows ALL of the bentonite to hydrate.
Best process is VERY slowly add the bentonite to hot water as you stir it well. Then shake it well until you think you have it completely mixed. Let it set over night. I normally use something like an old peanut butter jar to mix and store it in overnight. You might even find using a spatula to mix it if you get any clumps
Bentonite works pretty well but it's a mess to prepare and just dumping into your carboy or bucket is only going to make a mess..
Normally I give the Bentonite about 7-14 days to do it's thing then rack off of it.
As to timing, some folks like to add it before they start fermentation, I prefer to let the yeast work on the fruit and break everything down before I add bentonite and drag everything to bottom of the container. There is no hard fast rule as to when to add it.

Agreed. Mix in 105* water in a separate vessel and let it sit overnight.

 

[Jovimaple]

I bow to the superior knowledge of those who have used bentonite after fermentation is complete.

 

[winemaker81]

Best process is VERY slowly add the bentonite to hot water as you stir it well.

Believe this! When adding bentonite I sprinkle slowly while stirring. Failure to do this will produce a solid lump that will resist all efforts to break it up.

I use bentonite when making kits that include it. Depending on the kit my first racking is between SG 1.010 and 1.000. The racking is based on SG, not the calendar, and the presence of bentonite doesn't affect it.

When using bentonite post-fermentation (sometime for fruit and whites), I let it settle for a week or 2. A lot depends on thick the gross lees is -- if it's rather thick I'll rack sooner to get it out, but I want to rack only once so it's a trade-off.

I add K-meta once fermentation is done. This is at each racking and every 3 months during bulk aging.

 

[Katiejwine]

Awesome, thanks guys! I hydrated my bentonite with boiling water and let it sit for 24 hours, it has some minor clumps but nothing crazy. I'm going to add it in shortly. I have potassium metabisulphite and am adding it in now that my fermentation is done. I do have some air space at the top of my carboy and I am a bit worried about oxidization as I don't have a smaller carboy to rack into. I am wondering if its necessary to top up my carboy as I am trying to avoid adding in water, other wine etc. Any suggestions on that one?

 

[winemaker81]

Major kit vendors, including Winexpert, state that topping up is not necessary IF the kit is bottled on their schedule. This assumes carefully racking so a 23 liter carboy in down 1 to 2 bottles worth (750 ml to 1.5 l). Folks on this forum have validated this, so I believe it to be true.

However, the general recommendation on this forum is to NOT bottle on the vendor's schedule, to bulk age the wine at least a few months. In this case, you want to topup within a few inches of the stopper. The first choice is a compatible wine, either the same variety or one that blends well. I recommend using a wine of quality equal to or greater than what's in the carboy -- when blending you are limited by the quality of the lesser wine.

Second choice is any wine.

The goal is to protect your investment. By this, I don't mean just monetary value. Investment includes your time, effort, pride -- whatever the wine means to you.

Other options? One is to use multiple containers -- I have a bottles from 125 ml on up, with drilled stoppers that fit them, plus as drawer full of airlocks. Another is to use marbles, although you need to ensure they are lead-free. Some folks use insert gases, although I don't trust that as there's no way to tell how much of that space is air and how much is the inert gas.

Purity of wine used to matter to me. I consider that a large chunk of the world's wine is blends -- outside of Burgundy, most French wines are blends. Same is true of Italy and Spain. In the USA, a wine may be labeled with whatever grape comprises at least 76% of the wine, e.g., I can make a blend of 76% Cabernet Sauvignon and 24% Thompson Seedless, and call it Cabernet.

I used multiple containers for many years, and in some cases still do. However, for kits, I top 'em back up to 23 liters with a compatible wine as it's a LOT less hassle.

 

[Mekpdue]

Major kit vendors, including Winexpert, state that topping up is not necessary IF the kit is bottled on their schedule. This assumes carefully racking so a 23 liter carboy in down 1 to 2 bottles worth (750 ml to 1.5 l). Folks on this forum have validated this, so I believe it to be true.

However, the general recommendation on this forum is to NOT bottle on the vendor's schedule, to bulk age the wine at least a few months. In this case, you want to topup within a few inches of the stopper. The first choice is a compatible wine, either the same variety or one that blends well. I recommend using a wine of quality equal to or greater than what's in the carboy -- when blending you are limited by the quality of the lesser wine.

Second choice is any wine.

The goal is to protect your investment. By this, I don't mean just monetary value. Investment includes your time, effort, pride -- whatever the wine means to you.

Other options? One is to use multiple containers -- I have a bottles from 125 ml on up, with drilled stoppers that fit them, plus as drawer full of airlocks. Another is to use marbles, although you need to ensure they are lead-free. Some folks use insert gases, although I don't trust that as there's no way to tell how much of that space is air and how much is the inert gas.

Purity of wine used to matter to me. I consider that a large chunk of the world's wine is blends -- outside of Burgundy, most French wines are blends. Same is true of Italy and Spain. In the USA, a wine may be labeled with whatever grape comprises at least 76% of the wine, e.g., I can make a blend of 76% Cabernet Sauvignon and 24% Thompson Seedless, and call it Cabernet.

I used multiple containers for many years, and in some cases still do. However, for kits, I top 'em back up to 23 liters with a compatible wine as it's a LOT less hassle.

I also top off on kits when I’m going to bulk age. Primary-no, secondary/fining-no, aging yes. I can’t think of a reason why not, which would increase flavor or aroma.
And yes again, on what to blend with. I don’t want to use inexpensive ‘low quality’ wines. Forget the $5.99 bottles. That said, depending on my wine, I do use a decent box wine of similar blend.

 

[Scooter68]

Might be tough to do on short notice but I second the recommendation of finding smaller containers and downsizing. Keeping in mind that you will lose a little more volume when you rack off the bentonite and subsquently smaller amounts with each future racking. Sooooo If you can find a number of smaller containers you can downsize and potentially use the smallest to top off the bigger one(s) as you go through the aging process.
IF you have a local recycling center you can take a airlock bung or screw-top if you use those and go through the cast off/recycling bins and find bottle with the right size openings. I go down as small as 12 oz and up to 1/2 gallon glass containers with a few sizes in between in my collection.

 

[Katiejwine]

Thanks for all the input! I am not using a kit, my partner is a grape grower so I am using grapes we picked, pressed and transferred into the car boy. We had a really late spring frost so the grapes are a little special this year so I am not expecting anything extraordinary from the wine, just kind of learning and hoping for something drinkable. Today I can see that a good amount of the bentonite is sitting at the bottom of my car boy. The top of the wine seems to be clarifying, should I leave it as is or try to get the stuff at the bottom into suspension?
As for topping up, I would be limited in getting the same kind of varietal wine as it's not VQA approved, but is possible. I also have about five, one(ish) gallon growler type bottles but no bubbler attachments for them. If I got the bubblers could I just drill holes in the lid and pop it in the top?

 

[winemaker81]

I am not using a kit, my partner is a grape grower so I am using grapes we picked, pressed and transferred into the car boy.

Understood. It's the same principal, kit or grapes. If the wine is actively emitting CO2, it's protected from O2 by a layer that is replenishing itself. Once the wine is degassed (naturally or manually) *I* lack confidence that the wine is ok with a large headspace. I believe the folks that say the kit vendors are correct, but I'm not comfortable doing it.

There are different schools of thought on the first racking after pressing. Some folks rack within 2 days. Some of the guys that taught me didn't rack for a month after pressing. I watch the sediment build up and rack after it starts to compact. I waste less wine this way.

Are you a commercial winery? If not, why does it have to be the same variety? Personal preference?

Punching a hole in the caps is a problem as you won't get a tight seal. You can buy drilled stoppers of every size from #2 and up. If you have a local homebrew store, take a jug with you to determine which fits best.

 

[Katiejwine]

Yes, I agree with you about not being comfortable with a large headspace. I did manage to get my hands on a 19L carboy so I can transfer into that, I am just not sure when to rack into the new one with the bentonite. Most likely after the bentonite has clarified as long as the wine is safe in the larger car boy until then?

I racked after pressing and letting the must sit for around 4 hours because I had a lot of dark green sediment, probably due to the strange crop. Picking this kind of grape at the end of October is rather strange as it usually comes off the second week of September; so the must was a special colour after pressing.

I am not a commercial winery, just like the taste of the L'Acadie wine and am trying to keep it as the one varietal if possible. Now if I don't like the flavour in the end...we shall blend!

 

[winemaker81]

I racked after pressing and letting the must sit for around 4 hours because I had a lot of dark green sediment

Dark green sediment? That's a new one on me. Did you ferment juice or grapes?

I don't rack until the wine is clear. If there is cloudiness in any part (typically the lower part), the wine is not ready to rack. As I said, I wait for the sediment to start compacting before racking.

L'Acadie was not familiar to me -- which is no surprise -- there are hundreds of grape varieties. It sounds interesting. Sounds like you have the headspace solved.