Adding KMeta after pressing

[ericsp]

I’m not sure how to explain correctly but I bought the equivalent of what produces 35 gallons of Sangiovese grapes .

I added the KMeta before pitching the yeast which was the day after . 21.7 grams to be exact

I’m about 3 days in to the ferment .

I see the typical amount of KMeta added after I press these grapes should be 1/4 tsp for 5 gallons . I also have 6 gallon carboys and I assume I’ll even have a few 1 gallon jugs as well .

If I add KMeta proportionally it was be 1/4 KMeta for 5 gallons , 1/3 teaspoon KMeta for 6 gallons and 1/20th of a teaspoon for 1 gallon.

6 gallon- 1.6 grams
5 gallon-1.2 grams
1 gallon - .06

I assume I’m digging too deep with the 5 and 6 gallon carboy but if I added the 1/4 tsp to a 1 gallon jug that’s a lot .

 

[mainshipfred]

If you are going to do a MLF I don't think you should add any more. If not, wait until primary is complete and you rack off the gross lees. Some including myself do a higher amount on the initial dose.

 

[Rocky]

I’m not sure how to explain correctly but I bought the equivalent of what produces 35 gallons of Sangiovese grapes .

I added the KMeta before pitching the yeast which was the day after . 21.7 grams to be exact

I’m about 3 days in to the ferment .

I see the typical amount of KMeta added after I press these grapes should be 1/4 tsp for 5 gallons . I also have 6 gallon carboys and I assume I’ll even have a few 1 gallon jugs as well .

If I add KMeta proportionally it was be 1/4 KMeta for 5 gallons , 1/3 teaspoon KMeta for 6 gallons and 1/20th of a teaspoon for 1 gallon.

6 gallon- 1.6 grams
5 gallon-1.2 grams
1 gallon - .06

I assume I’m digging too deep with the 5 and 6 gallon carboy but if I added the 1/4 tsp to a 1 gallon jug that’s a lot .

I use a level 1/4 teaspoon for 5 gallon carboys and a "heaping" 1/4 teaspoon for 6 gallons and have never had an issue. For 1 gallon, I suppose I would use a half of a scant 1/8 teaspoon.

 

[ericsp]

If you are going to do a MLF I don't think you should add any more. If not, wait until primary is complete and you rack off the gross lees. Some including myself do a higher amount on the initial dose.

When’s the proper time to inoculate the fermination with malo ?

 

[ericsp]

I use a level 1/4 teaspoon for 5 gallon carboys and a "heaping" 1/4 teaspoon for 6 gallons and have never had an issue. For 1 gallon, I suppose I would use a half of a scant 1/8 teaspoon.

Thank you

 

[ericsp]

If you are going to do a MLF I don't think you should add any more. If not, wait until primary is complete and you rack off the gross lees. Some including myself do a higher amount on the initial dose.

So your also saying don’t do anymore KMeta after I press and put in carboys if I’m going for MLF ?

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Not sure I fully understand - did you buy enough grapes to make 35 gallons of wine? Or 35 gallons (by volume) of grapes, which if we assume 20lb/5gal is 140lb, should be around 9 gallons of wine?

The highest recommendation I've seen for adding at crush is 50ppm based on must volume (I would add a lot less unless my grapes were in really bad shape). If you're making 35 gallons of wine, that would be about 58 gallons of must and so for 50ppm you'd want 19g, a little less than you added.

 

[mainshipfred]

So your also saying don’t do anymore KMeta after I press and put in carboys if I’m going for MLF ?

That is correct. MLB has a very low SO2 tolerance. It is important to keep the headspace as low as possible until MLF is complete. This can take up to 4 months. As far as your other question people do it at different times. My preference is after primary is complete but again some do it earlier.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I agree with Fred, MLB are sensitive to SO2 and it turns out that total SO2 (rather than free) is the relevant number. If you are indeed making 35gal wine, that 21.7g dose is already >50ppm, which is around the ceiling for many MLB strains.

I'm in the 'add MLB after primary' camp, though others here have reported success with coinoculation, where you add MLB after alcoholic fermentation takes off.

 

[ericsp]

Not sure I fully understand - did you buy enough grapes to make 35 gallons of wine? Or 35 gallons (by volume) of grapes, which if we assume 20lb/5gal is 140lb, should be around 9 gallons of wine?

The highest recommendation I've seen for adding at crush is 50ppm based on must volume (I would add a lot less unless my grapes were in really bad shape). If you're making 35 gallons of wine, that would be about 58 gallons of must and so for 50ppm you'd want 19g, a little less than you added.

I’m sorry . 35 gallons

 

[ericsp]

So with the 35 gallons , I’ll wait until after press to use the malo.

I won’t add any additional KMeta to the carboys after I press . I should wait a week or so and rack off the Gross Lees into carboys with no more KMeta ?

Do I have enough “protection” with the KMeta where I shouldn't have to worry about not using it again after press ? Of course I’ll make sure I have almost no headspace.

Maybe I should skip the malo? since I don’t have the proper testing equipment .

 

[anthocyanin]

If you're wanting to make a "traditional" red wine, and not, say, pressing very early for a dark rosé or something stylistically between a rosé and a red, then I would recommend going through with the MLF. The high acid from no MLF *and* tannins together might make a wine that is a bit sharp and unapproachable. I also do not have equipment to test for MLF completion, and what I did last year with Pinot (my first red from fresh grapes) was inoculate with the malolactic bacteria after pressing and racking off the gross lees, and giving it 2 months of storage in the low 70s for MLF to complete before adding sulfites. Given the conditions and the stated parameters of the MLB strain I used, it probably was complete within 6 weeks but I gave it a bit extra time before sulfiting since I couldn't be 100% sure it was done. The young wine still has a lot of CO2 and reactive tannins in it and I was not super concerned with a few extra weeks of MLF being done but no sulfites.

 

[mainshipfred]

Skipping the malo will be a stylistic choice though it wouldn't be something I would do. A by product of MLf is CO2 though not nearly as much as the yeast gives off with primary. You main protection will be a properly topped off carboy. If your concern is not being able to test for completion letting it go through MLF for 3-4 months with proper temperatures should be enough of a guarantee. The only thing I might want to recommend is only waiting 2-3 days before racking off the gross lees then adding the bacteria.

 

[ericsp]

This is the current malo I plan on using . I don’t think it matters.

Also the recipe I’m following is in “The Home Winemaker’s companion.

So I took the 3.1g x7 to get the 21.7 grams.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

This is the current malo I plan on using . I don’t think it matters.

I've never used this brand, but I looked it up and it says (a) free SO2 should be <10ppm and (b) pitch the ML when primary fermentation is ~5 brix. (Source: https://morewinemaking.com/products...ch-generation-industry-leading-viability.html)

So I'd recommend following the manufacturer's instructions. Do you have any means to estimate FSO2?

 

[ericsp]

I've never used this brand, but I looked it up and it says (a) free SO2 should be <10ppm and (b) pitch the ML when primary fermentation is ~5 brix. (Source: https://morewinemaking.com/products...ch-generation-industry-leading-viability.html)

So I'd recommend following the manufacturer's instructions. Do you have any means to estimate FSO2?

Can you recommend some test strips for an estimate ?

I have a vinmetrica but haven’t used it in years .

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Can you recommend some test strips for an estimate ?

Never used test strips - I would recommend getting the vinmetrica out of storage if you can.

It will most likely be fine - your must and the fermentation process will probably bind up most or all of the SO2 - but it's good to have data if possible.

 

[ericsp]

Never used test strips - I would recommend getting the vinmetrica out of storage if you can.

It will most likely be fine - your must and the fermentation process will probably bind up most or all of the SO2 - but it's good to have data if possible.

I just ordered new reagents. I’ll try to call and see if my probe is still usable.

 

[mainshipfred]

I just ordered new reagents. I’ll try to call and see if my probe is still usable.

Their customer/technical service is really good. Below is a link to their troubleshooting guide. There are several things you can do if in question.

https://vinmetrica.com/troubleshooting-guide/#SO2Problems

 

[ericsp]

So after using the vinemetrica and a 5 mil syringe I used all the way to 3ml. Wouldn’t that be 60 ppm, which is more than what I added?

Not sure how that’s possible . I also checked PH which was 3.5