adding tannins

[cuz]

I am about 6 months into a Carmenere juice bucket. I have already clarified with Kitosol. Can I add Tannic acid for taste. The taste is just feels like its not ready yet. A little citrus taste

 

[Julie]

Yes you can add tannins,

 

[cuz]

So I am assuming you can add tannins at any time since there were no other replies

 

[stickman]

If you add tannin right before filtering, you'll probably plug your filter or reduce its throughput. If you add tannin right before bottling, you may get deposits in your bottled wine as it ages. Neither of these things are really big issues, just pointing out that tannin does take a little time to combine and may cause some small drop out.

 

[pete1325]

Just wondering.....is there liquid tannin? I normally add the powered stuff during secondary.

 

[cmason1957]

Just wondering.....is there liquid tannin? I normally add the powered stuff during secondary.

There is liquid tannin available. I have heard that it imparts a not so good flavor to the wine. I haven't ever used it, due to that warning.

 

[cuz]

So I was looking at tannins on different websites and find out that the descriptions are different. Some refer to tannins as a wood additive, mostly oak. Others sell it as Tannic acid. Anyone ever use Tannic acid. I have added oak chips before but didn't consider it as a tannin. I was thinking more like a grape skin pack would add tannins to a juice bucket. Not crazy about the idea of adding oak saw dust.

 

[Johnd]

So I was looking at tannins on different websites and find out that the descriptions are different. Some refer to tannins as a wood additive, mostly oak. Others sell it as Tannic acid. Anyone ever use Tannic acid. I have added oak chips before but didn't consider it as a tannin. I was thinking more like a grape skin pack would add tannins to a juice bucket. Not crazy about the idea of adding oak saw dust.

Tannins can be imparted into your wine in a number of ways, the seeds, stems, and skins of the grapes you are fermenting is a typical source, and the amount of imparted tannins can be massaged by numerous activities; quantity of seeds, skins, stems; cold soaking prior to fermentation; extended contact after fermentation; fermentation temps; punchdown / pumpover cap techniques; vigor of pressing, etc.

None of that really applies to your juice bucket, as it has no skins, seeds, or stems, so on to your question. Adding a grape pack will certainly allow you to impart tannins, and the above mentioned activities will influence the quantity. It is also “normal” to add tannins derived from oak, usually done either in the form of sawdust / chips during fermentation, or oak adjuncts used post fermentation like barrel aging, oak cubes, beans, spirals, staves, etc. The former (dust & chips) will impart little to no “oakiness” to your wine, while the latter will flavor your wine based upon quantity and contact time.

On to tannin powders, and there are numerous products, made for use during different stages during the winemaking process, pick one that suits your desires and stage. I believe I’ve read that quite a few of our members use Tannin Riche or FT Rouge (help me out here folks) post fermentation, which sounds like where you are. These products are made for winemakers.

As for tannic acid, I don’t know anything about it and wouldn’t add it to my wine unless it was specifically made for that purpose. A quick, and not thorough, search left me believing that it may have some glucose in it and introduce the possibility of renewed fermentation. Hope that helps........

 

[cuz]

Below is the tannin from EC Kraus

Product Description
(TAN210) Wine Tannin (also known as tannic acid) is very light in color and is preferred by most winemakers to be used with white and rose wines, but it can be used in red wines as well. Tannins are found naturally in fruits such as elderberries, plums and apples. These fruits have sufficient levels of tannin but when it comes to making wine, most fruits lack tannins. Tannins play three distinctive roles in making wine. The first is flavor; tannins increase the zesty flavors that are often left lacking in many homebrewed wines. The literal definition of tannin is the “zest” or peel of the grape. Tannins aid in the clarification process by neutralizing residual proteins and other proteins, these drop out of suspension by the simple presence of tannins. Tannins also aid in the aging and keeping qualities of wines; wines that are deficient do not take advantage of the aging process very well. Their improvement with time is only marginal and these wines also tend to deteriorate in quality more rapidly in longer storage situations. Each 2 ounce jar is sufficient for treating between 40 and 80 gallons of must, depending on the dosage. Directions: Add the tannin to the must at the beginning of fermentation. Dissolve in a small portion of warm water first and then stir the water mixture evenly throughout the entire batch. Dosage: Add between 1/8 and ¼ teaspoon of tannin per each gallon of wine. You can also use it as instructed by any recipe you may be using. Each 2-ounce jar will treat between 40 and 80 gallons of must. Ingredients: Tannic Acid (CAS 1401-55-4)

 

[sour_grapes]

So I was looking at tannins on different websites and find out that the descriptions are different. Some refer to tannins as a wood additive, mostly oak. Others sell it as Tannic acid. Anyone ever use Tannic acid. I have added oak chips before but didn't consider it as a tannin. I was thinking more like a grape skin pack would add tannins to a juice bucket. Not crazy about the idea of adding oak saw dust.

On to tannin powders, and there are numerous products, made for use during different stages during the winemaking process, pick one that suits your desires and stage. I believe I’ve read that quite a few of our members use Tannin Riche or FT Rouge (help me out here folks) post fermentation, which sounds like where you are. These products are made for winemakers.

Here is a page from ScottLabs that gives a nice overview of tannin powders: http://www.scottlab.com/products-29.aspx

They divide the world into fermentation tannins; cellaring tannins; and finishing tannins. The distinction between cellaring and finishing appears to be a bit fuzzy. FT Rouge (which I use) is considered a fermentation tannin, i.e., you add it during the active alcoholic fermentation. Tannin Riche (which I also use) is a finishing tannin. It adds a nice oak note and mild amount of astringency.

 

[Johnd]

Below is the tannin from EC Kraus

Product Description
(TAN210) Wine Tannin (also known as tannic acid) is very light in color and is preferred by most winemakers to be used with white and rose wines, but it can be used in red wines as well. Tannins are found naturally in fruits such as elderberries, plums and apples. These fruits have sufficient levels of tannin but when it comes to making wine, most fruits lack tannins. Tannins play three distinctive roles in making wine. The first is flavor; tannins increase the zesty flavors that are often left lacking in many homebrewed wines. The literal definition of tannin is the “zest” or peel of the grape. Tannins aid in the clarification process by neutralizing residual proteins and other proteins, these drop out of suspension by the simple presence of tannins. Tannins also aid in the aging and keeping qualities of wines; wines that are deficient do not take advantage of the aging process very well. Their improvement with time is only marginal and these wines also tend to deteriorate in quality more rapidly in longer storage situations. Each 2 ounce jar is sufficient for treating between 40 and 80 gallons of must, depending on the dosage. Directions: Add the tannin to the must at the beginning of fermentation. Dissolve in a small portion of warm water first and then stir the water mixture evenly throughout the entire batch. Dosage: Add between 1/8 and ¼ teaspoon of tannin per each gallon of wine. You can also use it as instructed by any recipe you may be using. Each 2-ounce jar will treat between 40 and 80 gallons of must. Ingredients: Tannic Acid (CAS 1401-55-4)

Sounds like tannin powder for wine, but made for use during fermentation primarily for whites / rose’s. Consider a finishing tannin, as you’re way beyond fermentation, maybe something like this:

http://www.scottlab.com/product-132.aspx

 

[cuz]

According to the Scotts website and EC Kraus, it appears that a finishing tannin is tannic acid and not oak additives.

 

[Stressbaby]

According to Wikipedia, "tannic acid" and "tannin" are often incorrectly used interchangeably. Tannic acid is not a single acid but a group of related acids and tannic acids are types of tannin.

 

[cuz]

I went with Tannin Riche Extra. Do I need to use a fining agent like bentonite when I'm ready to rack.