All in One Degassing Question

[BobPHL]

Hey guys - I've been bulk aging a kit wine (5gallon batch) for about 8months at this point. About 3 months ago i got the All-in-One pump to help with racking/degassing on other batches I've started. When I first racked the kit wine using the AIO - the amount of foam head was amazing - clearly a ton of CO2 still captured in the wine.

Then, I re-racked 6 weeks ago with AIO (as I was looking to bottle soon) and, again, a huge amount of foam head was bubbling up all over the place. Clearly a ton of CO2...still. I added some kmet and stuck the stopper back in.

Fast forward to today. I did another re-rack to a carboy I'm going to use to bottle using the AIO...and again...a ton of foam and bubbles. Can this still be CO2? Or is this simply a byproduct of agitation?

I said, it can't be CO2 - the wine has been aging for 8months, I've racked/degassed 3 different times with the AIO... So i just went to bottle this AM and as the bottle was filling up...sure enough, 1-2 inches of foam/bubbles started to form on the head of the wine as it was filling and kinda fizzed out the top of the bottle as I hit the release valve. The bubbles quickly diminished, and the wine looks great but can't help but wonder if there's still...somehow, someway....trapped CO2 in this wine.

Any thoughts? Am i just agitating it too much - or should I go ahead and continue to bottle? HOw many racks/degassing's with the AIO does it normally take to get all the CO2 out? ANy thoughts/advice would be great.

 

[gbayan22]

I'm definitely not the person to ask, but I'd say that the pump probably made the foam. I've heard that using a pump isn't the best way to rack wine since it creates a lot of air bubbles, which leads to oxidation. Maybe using gravity to siphon the wine through a tube would make less foam.

 

[BobPHL]

AIO pumps and degasses in a vacuum so no oxygen/air actually mixes in during the process.

I'm definitely not the person to ask, but I'd say that the pump probably made the foam. I've heard that using a pump isn't the best way to rack wine since it creates a lot of air bubbles, which leads to oxidation. Maybe using gravity to siphon the wine through a tube would make less foam.

Thanks for the response. Hopefully someone more familiar with AIO/degassing with it can chime in too.

 

[dralarms]

If your racking full blast, it could just be foam. Get the adjustable valve and cut it does it keep the foam from forming.

 

[jburtner]

I use headspace eliminators with the AIO and can get pretty much all the foam out. I might warm it up a bit to allow it to release CO2 more easily when I’m ready to rack.

Cheers,
Johann

 

[BobPHL]

If your racking full blast, it could just be foam. Get the adjustable valve and cut it does it keep the foam from forming.

Thanks - so just to be clear, the presence of foam isn't necessarily trapped CO2 - especially given how long i've been bulk aging (8+months) and how many times I've racked/degassed with the AIO (3x) - and most likely just foam from agitation under pressure?

 

[dralarms]

Thanks - so just to be clear, the presence of foam isn't necessarily trapped CO2 - especially given how long i've been bulk aging (8+months) and how many times I've racked/degassed with the AIO (3x) - and most likely just foam from agitation under pressure?

Correct. Full vacuum will create some foam, but it usually goes away in a few minutes.

 

[jgmann67]

Taste your wine. If it’s sharp or bitey, then you probably still have co2.

Co2 releases naturally with time and temperature. If your wine is sitting in a constant that’s > 70*, chances are your co2 isn’t released on its own. So, 3-4 rackings might get it done.

 

[Rice_Guy]

foam when you pull a vacuum is probably CO2. . As a test pull a vacuum on a commercial wine, it should be free, try city water, it should be slight bubble and good enough, try sparkling water with vacuum, it will be excessive bleeding into the hoses since that product is carbonatedat 2 atmospheres.
Compare these three levels with your wine. Practically speaking if my wine is slight at 5 inches Hg vacuum, , , it is good enough so I ignore it.

Thanks - so just to be clear, the presence of foam isn't necessarily trapped CO2 - especially given how long i've been bulk aging (8+months) and how many times I've racked/degassed with the AIO (3x) - and most likely just foam from agitation under pressure?

Real foam is not agitation. When I run lab samples with CO2 I microwave about 50 milliliters for 30 seconds and stir till the foam stops to remove gas.

 

[garymc]

When you rack, don't rack from one carboy to another sitting right next to it. Have the full one on the floor and the new one up on a table or counter, so the vacuum is lifting the wine. It will have to pull harder to lift it up to an elevated carboy.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Very wise, you are saying generate a larger pressure differential

When you rack, don't rack from one carboy to another sitting right next to it. Have the full one on the floor and the new one up on a table or counter, so the vacuum is lifting the wine. It will have to pull harder to lift it up to an elevated carboy.

Another way to create a larger delta P is to put a needle valve in line or crimp on the tube or smaller diameter tubing in line. For each case including sucking from the floor height, you will need tight joints, , note rubber bands act as clamp.