Apple wine without a press

[ChuckD]

I have some of this information on a previous thread but wanted to get it all in one place.

I recently brought home about 120 lbs of apples from a local orchard to make wine, one of my wife’s favorites. I have a small press but it was frigid outside and it’s too messy to press indoors. So we ran all everything through an apple grinder… filling a 20 gallon Brute nearly to the top after adding 6 gallons of water and 28 lbs of sugar. Other addition were 10t pectic enzyme, 5t tannin, 10t Fermaid K, and 1t K-meta.

After about 6 hours I split the batch in two Brutes and added 10 lbs of frozen apples and another gallon of water to each Brute. 32 hours later I pitched a yeast starter. 71B in one and EC1118 in the other.

 

[ChuckD]

Initial SG was 1.094 with a pH of 3.64 after adjusting with 40g of tartaric acid.

7 days later (today) the EC 1118 was down to 1.014 and the 71B was at 1.022.

In the past I would scoop all the must into straining bags and squeeze out the juice. But I had a different plan today. In the morning I scooped the dry cap off then used a kitchen strainer to fish out all the floaters. Then I poured all the wine through the strainer. I didn’t really press the must through the strainer, just scraped it around until it drained then tossed the “apple sauce “. After transferring to carboys I had 6 gallons of each and a 3-gallon carboy that was 2/3 71B and 1/3 EC1118. No topping up required.

 

[ChuckD]

You can already taste the difference. The 71B is more fruity and a little less harsh. I also added another teaspoon of pectic enzyme to each carboy

 

[ChuckD]

So a week later the the EC1118 is at 0.998 and gross lees are starting to drop.



The 71B is at 1.008 and still cloudy



Whenever I do apple this way I have a lot of gross lees… like 6” in the carboy. Would adding bentonite or some other clearing agent help speed the process or result in more compact lees?

 

[BigDaveK]

No help on the fining agents - don't normally use them.

With all my pear wines last year I aimed for 4 gallons in secondary. Each time it gave me 3 gallons to bulk. The amount of gross lees always looks scary but it seems to compress nicely.

 

[Ohio Bob]

Bentonite will do a great job clearing the wine. The disadvantage is the lees are light and fluffy, definitely not compact. I would give it some time to compress on its own, then revisit the issue.

 

[ChuckD]

Bentonite will do a great job clearing the wine. The disadvantage is the lees are light and fluffy, definitely not compact. I would give it some time to compress on its own, then revisit the issue.

Thanks. I’ve not used it before. The apple lees are light and fluffy enough! I’m mainly looking to see if I can remedy that. I also have dual fine in the house if that would work.

 

[ChuckD]

The EC1118 has been done for a week and is clearing nicely. The 71B just finished and had started to clear. Both have lots of fluffy lees right now. You can see how just shaking the carboy while sampling stirred up the 71B. As for taste, the 71B has WOW apple flavor! Much fruitier than the EC1118. Both could use a little tannin. I’m thinking a little oak during bulk.

So one question… would it help settle the lees faster if I racked some out (to avoid an apple volcano) and then degassed them? I worry about the wine sitting on that much gross lees for weeks. A week ago the EC1118 was cleared down to the thermometer strip… the settling rate is very slow!

 

[Rice_Guy]

You have more lees than I have had with apple. WOW!!
My mind goes toward filtering. This year my wife (with Amazon Prime) blessed me with "Bellamei nut milk bags; fine Italian nylon mesh" (but made in China) ,,, From the look of them they are about 100 mesh (US standard sieve for flour) and the nylon fabric stands up well against pressure/ I haven't popped one with a couple hundred pounds pressing. You should be able to gravity drain most of the liquid then squeeze/ wring the bag to get a firm pulp like tooth paste.
The down side is that your ferment is done, so sulphite right after. ,,, I usually try filtering fine pulp at 1.010 or 1.020.

 

[BigDaveK]

I usually try filtering fine pulp at 1.010 or 1.020.

Me, too! I have the Bellamei brew bag, 250micron, that I use when transferring to secondary, also around 1.020. Clog easily, usually have to massage but that's a minor inconvenience. First time I used them I put 3 gallons, held up well but crazy awkward to deal with. Live and learn.

They don't get rid of everything of course, @ChuckD , but I'd guess at least 75% less lees than you have now. A 2-pack is less than 10 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YD4ZMM...colid=2VESMTUWTYR5W&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

 

[ChuckD]

@Rice_Guy ,@BigDaveK, yeah I was hoping to avoid straining bags. I’ve used them in the past and been left with maybe 6” of lees. Using the strainer was much easier but obviously let too much pulp through. Even though I didn’t press it through.

I guess tomorrow I’ll rack off the clear liquid and run the rest through a fine-mesh bag.

 

[winemaker81]

The EC1118 has been done for a week and is clearing nicely. The 71B just finished and had started to clear. Both have lots of fluffy lees right now. You can see how just shaking the carboy while sampling stirred up the 71B. As for taste, the 71B has WOW apple flavor! Much fruitier than the EC1118. Both could use a little tannin. I’m thinking a little oak during bulk.

It's great to have a practical demonstration of the differences between yeast strains. Thanks!

 

[BigDaveK]

It's great to have a practical demonstration of the differences between yeast strains. Thanks!

I agree! I used 71B for my apple and pear wines. I hope to experiment more with different yeasts this year and for apple and pear EC1118 won't be one of them. Thanks! I'm thinking about V1116, many similar properties to 71B. We'll see.

Oh, and I learned not to use a strainer! Double thanks!

 

[hounddawg]

The EC1118 has been done for a week and is clearing nicely. The 71B just finished and had started to clear. Both have lots of fluffy lees right now. You can see how just shaking the carboy while sampling stirred up the 71B. As for taste, the 71B has WOW apple flavor! Much fruitier than the EC1118. Both could use a little tannin. I’m thinking a little oak during bulk.
View attachment 98480
So one question… would it help settle the lees faster if I racked some out (to avoid an apple volcano) and then degassed them? I worry about the wine sitting on that much gross lees for weeks. A week ago the EC1118 was cleared down to the thermometer strip… the settling rate is very slow!

and a little pectin never hurt
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

It's great to have a practical demonstration of the differences between yeast strains. Thanks!

K1V-1116
Dawg

 

[BernardSmith]

Curious. I expect to get about 1 gallon of pressed juice from local orchards from about 20 lbs of apples, and so from 120 lbs I would be looking for around 6 gallons. But you added 7 gallons of water and have what? 15 gallons of must (albeit with a boat load of lees and sediment) . Do you routinely add as much water or was this because you were unable to press the fruit? With that much water and that amount of sugar (28 lbs) it looks like your initial gravity is going to be around 1.100 (so 13% ABV) but the flavor may be a bit insipid for an apple wine - unless that is the way you prefer it..

 

[sour_grapes]

and a little pectin never hurt
Dawg

Chuck probably figured this out, but I'm pretty sure Dawg meant pectase (AKA pectic enzyme).

 

[ChuckD]

Curious. I expect to get about 1 gallon of pressed juice from local orchards from about 20 lbs of apples, and so from 120 lbs I would be looking for around 6 gallons. But you added 7 gallons of water and have what? 15 gallons of must (albeit with a boat load of lees and sediment) . Do you routinely add as much water or was this because you were unable to press the fruit? With that much water and that amount of sugar (28 lbs) it looks like your initial gravity is going to be around 1.100 (so 13% ABV) but the flavor may be a bit insipid for an apple wine - unless that is the way you prefer it..

I have a small press now but it was too cold outside and I needed to get it done ASAP so I ground them up and fermented them on the skins. I have done it this way three times before and the wine does not generally lack for apple flavor. I wonder if fermenting on the skins and fruit solids allows for more flavor extraction? I’ve yet to make one from juice alone so I can’t compare, but the 71B flavor seems comparable to store bought apple ciders I’ve had. Not so much with the EC1118.

The final must volume was almost 20 gallons, and yes doing it this way results in a lot of lees, and I strained out probably 7 gallons of solids prior to transferring them to the carboys. The voluminous lees are very flocculent, so I don’t expect to lose too much volume when I run them through a fine mesh straining bag tonight. I’ll report back. I do plan on pressing next year to avoid the mess of using straining bags.

I don’t remember seeing anything about it, but would adding apple skins to the ferment be analogous to adding skin packs to grape wine?

 

[BigDaveK]

I know there's vitamins and minerals in apple skins. And polyphenols. Of course quantity depends on variety and growing conditions and probably a boatload of other things.

I'm planning on using the skins with my next apple wine...assuming I have a decent harvest.

 

[ChuckD]

I know there's vitamins and minerals in apple skins. And polyphenols. Of course quantity depends on variety and growing conditions and probably a boatload of other things.

I'm planning on using the skins with my next apple wine...assuming I have a decent harvest.

Perhaps that’s why my apple wines haven’t turned out insipid despite adding water to them. Or maybe they are and I like them that way.

Actually the first wine I made (it was apple) called for 20 lbs of apples for 5-gallons of wine, not to squeeze out the must, and to top up with cold water. My experience with cooking told me just pack in all the apples I could and always top up with apple juice. I also did squeeze the juice from the must…It turned out great.