Back sweeten

[D&S]

I just back sweetened my Concord wine after 5 months, added Sorbate and k-meta, how long can I leave this in the carboy, or does it matter as long as I have k-meta in it.

 

[salcoco]

wait about a week to insure fermentation does not occur. if good bottle

 

[ChuckD]

If you are bulk aging you typically just add k-meta. Typical recommendation is to refresh the k-meta with 1/4 tsp for 5-gallons every three months or after racking. Sorbate is usually added just before bottling.

Someone more knowledgeable than myself can opine on wether adding sorbate prior to bulk aging makes a difference? Or how
Long you can wait before you need to add it again to bottle… weeks? Months?

 

[D&S]

wait about a week to insure fermentation does not occur. if good bottle

That is what I usually do, but wanted to see if ageing with sweetener and sorbate would make any difference. Just an experiment to make sure it is sweet enough after ageing. Thanks for reply

wait about a week to insure fermentation does not occur. if good bottle

 

[Rice_Guy]

sorbate reacts with water and degrades with time,
how long? never looked for a study on this good question

. Sorbate is usually added just before bottling. . . Someone more knowledgeable than myself can opine on wether adding sorbate prior to bulk aging makes a difference?

 

[Czaccary]

If you are bulk aging you typically just add k-meta. Typical recommendation is to refresh the k-meta with 1/4 tsp for 5-gallons every three months or after racking. Sorbate is usually added just before bottling.

Someone more knowledgeable than myself can opine on wether adding sorbate prior to bulk aging makes a difference? Or how
Long you can wait before you need to add it again to bottle… weeks? Months?

So ideally when bulk aging every 3 months you would want to add K META, however if you were planning on bottling soon how much prior do you add the sorbate before bottling?

 

[winemaker81]

Someone more knowledgeable than myself can opine on wether adding sorbate prior to bulk aging makes a difference? Or how Long you can wait before you need to add it again to bottle… weeks? Months?

Add sorbate once and once only. Too much will produce off flavors.

There is no value in adding sorbate before backsweetening, e.g,, if there's no sugar in the wine, there's no need.

Some folks wait a week or 2 after backsweetening to bottle, but I bottle immediately. I also ensure my sorbate is relatively fresh, and have yet to have a problem. Bottle immediately or wait a week or two -- whichever is the most comfortable.

 

[ChuckD]

however if you were planning on bottling soon how much prior do you add the sorbate before bottling?

I have added the sorbate, back sweetened, and bottled immediately. However some recommended waiting a few days to a week to make sure there is no renewed fermentation. How long can you wait? I don’t have an answer for that one… and if Rice-guy or Winemaker don’t know it may not be knowable

 

[ChuckD]

Thanks Brian. I think the question is, if you add sorbate and back sweeten can you then leave it in bulk for an extended period before bottling? Not sure why you would, but would it make a difference if you did?

 

[winemaker81]

I have added the sorbate, back sweetened, and bottled immediately. However some recommended waiting a few days to a week to make sure there is no renewed fermentation. How long can you wait? I don’t have an answer for that one… and if Rice-guy or Winemaker don’t know it may not be knowable

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm far from being the omnipotent, all powerful, Wizard of Oz.

Some months back during a sorbate discussion, I searched on it, and learned that sorbate breaks down in a wine and eventually produces off aromas and flavors. This supposedly limits the shelf life of wines stabilized with sorbate, but no time table was given. I've had backsweetened wines as old as 10 years, and they were fine. So ... I have no idea how accurate that statement is or what the timeline actually is.

I've also read a few anecdotal accounts that a wine can be stabilized and then bottled months later. "Anecdotal" meaning someone made a statement but no supporting facts were presented.

So ... I found no factual information on sorbate timelines. What I know from my own experiences and from those of folks on this forum whose opinions I trust, is that it's ok to bottle immediately after adding sorbate, and within the next few weeks. Beyond that, I don't know.

More and more, I'm leaning towards @Rice_Guy's solution of bulk aging for 9-12 months before backsweetening, and skipping sorbate completely.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* The time I have seen which makes sense is to treat with K sorbate and meta then wait at least a day and it won’t add safety if over a week. Sweetener should be added at bottling. One logic is sorbate‘s effectiveness is greater with other fences in place like alcohol and free SO2 . , sorbate stops reproduction, which could restart if the sweetener is first or at the same time combined with dilution of alcohol from a simple syrup or a juice.
* wine is a dynamic preservation system with variables as in France apple folks remove nitrogen to maintain sweetness. I pull tricks out like dropping the pH to 2.8 with a dose of meta for a kill step.
* as a contest judge I have tasted geranium flavor which I found nasty. Yes the text books warn about other flavors but I am not educated enough to have tried them, ,,, so why risk it if you don’t have to.
* Yes I treated a four month old cyser with sorbate last week, so ,,, I will use it IF the risk justifies it. ,,, this is where “art” comes in, (and I am “fixing” more cinnamon flavor than I want in a contest wine), ,,, ((frozen concentrate adds apple aromatics) ,,, is art knowable?

I have added the sorbate, back sweetened, and bottled immediately. However some recommended waiting a few days to a week to make sure there is no renewed fermentation. How long can you wait? I don’t have an answer for that one… and if Rice-guy or Winemaker don’t know it may not be knowable