Back-sweetening question - Forgot potassium sorbate

[GaVino]

Question for more knowledgeable folks than I. I just bottled a batch of muscadine wIne (34 bottles). I back sweetened but forgot to put in the potassium sorbate.

The wine finished fermenting back in October and has been sitting in the carboy since to clarify. I also added sulfates when I did the final racking back in October.

Any insight as to how long the yeast will stay active? Am I likely to have a cork popping problem?

Thanks!

 

[vinny]

@Rice_Guy says yeast are mostly dead around 8 months? Completely at 10-12 months and safe to back sweeten without sorbate.

I would certainly open a bottle and see if you have renewed activity. I think it is inevitable if you didn't add sorbate. I would likely just open them all and add sorbate to the bulk batch. I'd rather err on the side of caution than have one bottle go on me, let alone 34.

 

[BigDaveK]

I agree it would be a good and prudent idea to avoid unintentional bottle bombs.

Finished fermenting in October? How old is this wine?

 

[GaVino]

Timing question - any thoughts as to how long I have before popping would be an issue? Keeping the bottles at ~65 degrees. These make great Christmas presents (just use quickly ).

I still have 14 gallons sitting in carboy’s resting from my 2022 batch - so plenty to get me thru the year.

On popping them, adding Potassium Sorbate and re-bottling - definitely an option - but If i’m good for 4 weeks - then I’d prefer to avoid all that effort.

Regarding this batch -
Started the batch in late August - finished secondary in late September. Usually takes about 5 days for primary and for my earlier batches (when its warmer) just a few weeks for secondary. For context - I use EC1118 with yeast nutrient. Also - my muscadine is ~2/5 muscadine grapes and 3/5 sugar water (not a true grape wine).

 

[Jovimaple]

Bryan (@winemaker81) often says to think about your time and effort invested in the wine already, and figure out your risk tolerance.

Me? I agree with both Daves ... better safe than sorry. At the least, I would dump them back into a clean fermenting bucket, dose with kmeta and sorbate, and rebottle.

Given the young age of your wine, I would even consider putting it back into a carboy and aging a few more months before bottling. That would also have the added advantage of you being able to monitor for renewed fermentation.

Edited to add that unless you bottled in champagne bottles, it's dangerous because normal bottles aren't rated for that kind of pressure. Someone could be injured if a bottle explodes while they are uncorking it.

 

[GaVino]

@Jovimaple - Thats is good advice - better safe than sorry w/ all the work that goes into a batch of wine.

Thanks for all the input!

 

[winemaker81]

any thoughts as to how long I have before popping would be an issue?

The short answer is "yes". The long answer is "when Mother Nature and Dionysus feel like it".

Your wine is young, so the likelihood of a renewed fermentation is high, and there is no way to gauge the time frame. Pull the corks, unbottle, add sorbate + K-meta, and re-bottle now. Solve the problem before it becomes a problem.

Adding onto Joni's comment about explosions -- NEVER secure the cork in a regular wine bottle with a cage or other mechanism. If that cork wants to blow, let it. Better to clean up a mess than to deal with an explosion. Wine bottles are unrated for pressure, meaning no pressure is safe, e.g., a weak spot can give way under enough pressure, and there's no way to determine what that pressure is.

You made a good choice in asking this question.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Choices;
* the cleanest answer is to mix up 1:1 potassium sorbate in tap water or distilled > uncork the lot > and then dropper some into each bottle > recork (I haven’t done the math on dilution/ I would do this method since it is reliable)
you could add a trace of potassium metabisulphite but on week old product I would skip it.
* three month old wine should have individual suspended yeast, yeast tend to clump as they die off therefore you should have some flock in the bottle by the time it is six months old
* sorbate is part of a multi variable preservative system, in part this means that there are other choices as add acid to drop the pH below 2.8 or add grain alcohol to 18% and be as stable as if at 11% alcohol/ pH 3.5/ with sorbate, ,,, next this means low alcohol means a higher dosage is required, ,,, as in case one this involves uncorking
* temperature, most strains of wine yeast like 50F/ 10C through 38C, ,,, refrigeration will prevent explosions ie a safe choice, ,,, or holding in the attic in August for a week (40C) would actually kill off yeast, if you had other preservatives as low pH and high alcohol this happens faster
* dumping back into a bottling bucket will introduce oxygen, ,,,, if you do this you have to add potassium metabisulphite, ,,, I would run high as 0.3 gram per gallon. note most folks will taste 100ppm meta, ,,,, but with a few months it reacts and that goes away

 

[winemaker81]

* the cleanest answer is to mix up 1:1 potassium sorbate in tap water or distilled > uncork the lot > and then dropper some into each bottle > recork (I haven’t done the math on dilution/ I would do this method since it is reliable)
you could add a trace of potassium metabisulphite but on week old product I would skip it.

@GaVino, the dosage of the sorbate I've purchased is 1/2 tsp per 1 US gallon of wine. Check the package, in case the dosage is different.

Make the solution according to David's (@Rice_Guy) instructions for 1 gallon of wine. Divide that into 5 portions, and add 1 portion to each of 5 bottles.

A fairly easy way to do this -- if you have a medical syringe (no needle), you can use that to determine how many ml of solution you have, e.g., if the amount is 10 ml, use 2 ml/bottle. If you get an odd amount of solution, e.g., 9 ml, add 1 ml water to round it up to 10.

My example is 1 US gallon, but you can scale this up for your 34 bottles. Make solution for 35 bottles, add to each bottle, and toss the last dosage as unnecessary.

 

[vinny]

@GaVino, the dosage of the sorbate I've purchased is 1/2 tsp per 1 US gallon of wine. Check the package, in case the dosage is different.

Make the solution according to David's (@Rice_Guy) instructions for 1 gallon of wine. Divide that into 5 portions, and add 1 portion to each of 5 bottles.

A fairly easy way to do this -- if you have a medical syringe (no needle), you can use that to determine how many ml of solution you have, e.g., if the amount is 10 ml, use 2 ml/bottle. If you get an odd amount of solution, e.g., 9 ml, add 1 ml water to round it up to 10.

My example is 1 US gallon, but you can scale this up for your 34 bottles. Make solution for 35 bottles, add to each bottle, and toss the last dosage as unnecessary.

What I do for K-meta if I am doing a 3 month on a number of gallon batches is add 1/4 tsp of k-meta to a glass and dilute in 5 tsp of water. A tsp of the solution goes in each gallon jug.

Not 100% accurate, but close enough for my purposes. Limited tools required, so I thought I would offer it up as an option for sorbate. You can make the dilution whatever you want and maybe a 1/4 tsp water would be best for attempting it in the bottle if it will dissolve in that concentration.

 

[winemaker81]

What I do for K-meta if I am doing a 3 month on a number of gallon batches is add 1/4 tsp of k-meta to a glass and dilute in 5 tsp of water. A tsp of the solution goes in each gallon jug.

For gallon / 4 liter batches, 5 tsp liquid is not a problem. For already full bottles, adding as little volume as possible is necessary, to avoid over-filling the bottles.

However, a thief could be used to remove wine from each bottle, add the sorbate liquid, and then restore as much wine as necessary to provide the proper ullage.

We're getting a bit deep in the weeds -- while all the above solutions work, it's best to go with the simplest. I'll leave it up to everyone to determine what they believe is simplest.

 

[vinny]

For gallon / 4 liter batches, 5 tsp liquid is not a problem. For already full bottles, adding as little volume as possible is necessary, to avoid over-filling the bottles.

However, a thief could be used to remove wine from each bottle, add the sorbate liquid, and then restore as much wine as necessary to provide the proper ullage.

We're getting a bit deep in the weeds -- while all the above solutions work, it's best to go with the simplest. I'll leave it up to everyone to determine what they believe is simplest.

Indeed, I think the prudent point is 'do something'!