BIG RED

[tjgaul]

I made this kit last year around this time . . .https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZPLB7V/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Old Vine Cabernet Sauvignon Red kit - Master Vintner Sommelier Select
Bottled it 2 weeks ago. I doubt you'd consider it anywhere close to an $80 bottle, but it made a nice dry CA- Napa style Cab. Tweeks - I did an extended maceration and added extra oak. I've had a few bottles of Beaulieu Vineyards basic Napa Cab Sauv (~$22-$25) and I would compare this batch favorably (even at this early age). This is the first wine kit I've made that probably will not be readily shared.

 

[tjgaul]

I made this kit last year around this time . . .https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZPLB7V/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Old Vine Cabernet Sauvignon Red kit - Master Vintner Sommelier Select
Bottled it 2 weeks ago. I doubt you'd consider it anywhere close to an $80 bottle, but it made a nice dry CA- Napa style Cab. Tweeks - I did an extended maceration and added extra oak. I've had a few bottles of Beaulieu Vineyards basic Napa Cab Sauv (~$22-$25) and I would compare this batch favorably (even at this early age). This is the first wine kit I've made that probably will not be readily shared.

 

[Brian55]

So it is possible to come somewhat close. I know it's not possible to make an exact Cliff Lede or Caymus quality, hell if I could get within 50% of the quality, I'd be impressed. My question was only asking which high end kit could come close. If I had to babysit on a fine wine for 2+ years, I want it to be something like this. I've see kits go for $200. Are these rated for what I looking for or are those in the $20 bottle class?

We've made hundreds of premium kit wines over the past 8 years. We've also hosted plenty of blind tastings with our wines intermixed with commercial wines of varying price. Kit wines at their best will hold their own against commercial wines into the $20 per bottle range, beyond $30 they start to show their flaws vs. commercial. Once you're into the mid 90 point commercial wines, there's just no comparison.

 

[LouisCKpasteur]

A premium red it at 200 bucks is still a 600 dollar value if you insist on putting a price (of 20 bucks a bottle) on it. You could sneak into a SL district vineyard and swipe 100 lbs of merlot grapes to get your six gallons and turn it into an absolute crapfest. Kits are giving you what winemakers working from whole grapes strive for - batch to batch (vintage to vintage) consistency. You are far less likely to muck up the WE Lodi Cab Sauv than the 100lbs of premium grapes (which you would not be able to get in the first place). Your eighty dollar wines have terroir, don't have overcropping, might have a bunch of dudes harvesting at night by hand with miners lamps on their heads etc etc at the precisely right Brix. As a previous poster said the economics of getting an eighty dollar wine out of a 200 dollar kit is just a non-starter.

 

[sour_grapes]

So it is possible to come somewhat close. I know it's not possible to make an exact Cliff Lede or Caymus quality, hell if I could get within 50% of the quality, I'd be impressed. My question was only asking which high end kit could come close. If I had to babysit on a fine wine for 2+ years, I want it to be something like this. I've see kits go for $200. Are these rated for what I looking for or are those in the $20 bottle class?

@pillswoj already gave what I believe to be the best list of the best kits available. Basically in the $20 class, if everything goes exceedingly well.

 

[jgmann67]

Nothing new to add here and agree with everything posted. If you want to make an ultra-high-quality, luxury wine, you might want to forget kits altogether and go on a mission to source grapes from the finest vineyards in Napa. Marrying into the Baldacci family wouldn’t hurt, either. [emoji1303]

Even then, it will cost you substantially more than $5/bottle to make. And, you still won’t know what you have for 5-8 years.

My first kit was an RJS Cellar Series Aussie Cab. It’s been moved to the RJS En Premier label now. With a little extra attention, and a couple years, it was hands down, the best kit Cab I made. Still, I would compare it to a $30 commercial bottle.

 

[dmguptill]

This has been an interesting thread, though what you guys are saying is in line with what I've seen elsewhere. It does raise a question for me: what does it take to get the best out of a kit?

 

[Brian55]

This has been an interesting thread, though what you guys are saying is in line with what I've seen elsewhere. It does raise a question for me: what does it take to get the best out of a kit?

Buy the best kit you can afford, in a varietal you typically enjoy. Throw away the instructions, then follow the "generally agree upon" suggestions of those who've been at this for years.

 

[dmguptill]

Buy the best kit you can afford, in a varietal you typically enjoy. Throw away the instructions, then follow the "generally agree upon" suggestions of those who've been at this for years.

The generally agreed upon suggestions are what I'm asking about!

 

[Brian55]

The generally agreed upon suggestions are what I'm asking about!

There are countless threads on this site regarding tweaks, ignoring the time line in the instructions, extended maceration, etc.. Most of them come to some sort of consensus on what works best.

 

[pillswoj]

Most of us that have tried it agree that extended maceration on premium red kits with skins (8 weeks in closed primary on the skins), barrel aging up to 6 Months in a barrel (neutral or close to it for 6 months). Many will add additional fermentation or finishing tannens. If the kit contains ec1118 yeast swap it out for RC 212 or BM 4x4 and don't forget to use yeast nutrients.

That is in general my tweeks for high end reds, search the forums for details on any of those topics.

 

[jgmann67]

Jeff and I have the same tweaks:

a. Yeast swap.
b. Extended maceration.
c. Tannin in the primary.
d. Increase or swap oak.
e. Tannin in the finish.
f. Age big red wines at least 2 years before digging in.

I don't own a barrel. If I did, that would be my (g). Depending on the flavor profile of the wine, I might consider adding raisins or berries (though I haven't added berries yet).

 

[Berry Juice]

Which high end kit would be best? I have searched the sites, Midwest, LP, MoreWine, etc and no one has anything above $200. Is this as high end as it's gets?

 

[Johnd]

Which high end kit would be best? I have searched the sites, Midwest, LP, MoreWine, etc and no one has anything above $200. Is this as high end as it's gets?

Check out the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli kits here: https://www.finevinewines.com/Z_ProdListMeglioli_2019.asp

Looks like they're mostly sold out for 2019's, but if you call, they may be getting some more in and will reserve one for your. These kits are a full 23 liters of pure juice never from concentrate (purportedly) and the reds typically come with really nice grape packs and good quality oak. I've made a number of them over the years and my opinion is that they are excellent, though a bit costly. On all of the red kits, plan on bulk aging close to a year before bottling, bottle aging at least one year, they continue to improve for years afterwards.

 

[Brian55]

Which high end kit would be best? I have searched the sites, Midwest, LP, MoreWine, etc and no one has anything above $200. Is this as high end as it's gets?

http://www.finevinewines.com/ carries Mosti Mondiale. Their Meglioli and All Juice Masters Edition are as high end as kits get, as far as I'm aware.

 

[heatherd]

I think you're right @Brian55 about the Mosti Mondiali kits being at the highest end: some are $224 on the finevinewine page. The RJS RQ's are up there at $170ish.

 

[Berry Juice]

Right on!![emoji106] Now we're finally getting there!

 

[jgmann67]

Which high end kit would be best?

Wars have been started by questions like this.

 

[pillswoj]

I have a MM Meglioli Amarone on order, I think it is for March 2019, it will be my first Meglioli kit. I currently have a MM All Juice Cab Sauv that I used a skin pack on bulk aging. I am hoping these are impressive when done.

 

[Berry Juice]

So Mosti Mondiali is the a league all their own. Competition is thin at the top.