Blackberries, black raspberries and other similar

[Ohio Bob]

I have been freezing them as I go

That’s my protocol as well. Once the harvest is done in early September then I ***** the situation. I’ve started ferments in October, thanksgiving, and as late as December.

 

[BigDaveK]

I agree with @Ohio Bob on the freezing. Another benefit of freezing is that it buys you time. I vac seal and freeze so it buys me A LOT of time.

 

[Newbie Mel]

Sorry, I'm adding something to the OP.

I've collected 3.5 lbs of black raspberries so far and I'm really looking forward to the wine.

But this is the interesting thing - last year my wild blackberries were small and super mega ultra tart. Started harvesting this morning and this year they're big and juicy and mildly tart. The difference from one year to another is amazing!

Um also wanted to talk to you about honeysuckle. Just started seeing it pop up on invasive vines. Not a lot in one place but scattered over property and maybe if I start gathering I could get enough for a gallon. Any tips?

 

[BigDaveK]

Um also wanted to talk to you about honeysuckle. Just started seeing it pop up on invasive vines. Not a lot in one place but scattered over property and maybe if I start gathering I could get enough for a gallon. Any tips?

Depends on what kind you have. Believe it or not, some are toxic.
I have at least four kinds of honeysuckle but the one I use for wine is the Japanese honeysuckle. The flowers start out white and turn yellowish in a day or two. Personally I think they become bitter once they change color so I only use white. Harvest, throw into freezer, repeat.
I've made a tea with the flowers and I've fermented with the flowers. I will never ever make a tea again!

 

[Newbie Mel]

Depends on what kind you have. Believe it or not, some are toxic.
I have at least four kinds of honeysuckle but the one I use for wine is the Japanese honeysuckle. The flowers start out white and turn yellowish in a day or two. Personally I think they become bitter once they change color so I only use white. Harvest, throw into freezer, repeat.
I've made a tea with the flowers and I've fermented with the flowers. I will never ever make a tea again!

Yep starting out white and turning yellow. I will start collecting whites and see how much I get. Of course I will confirm not toxic first

 

[BigDaveK]

Yep starting out white and turning yellow. I will start collecting whites and see how much I get. Of course I will confirm not toxic first

Yes, you may have the Japanese variety. It's one of the more common invasive varieties. I think the bush varieties are the toxic/poisonous ones but don't quote me.

I'm amazed at the difference from one year to the next. Last year my honeysuckle had great flavor and very little scent but made a very nice wine. This year I had great flavor AND knock your socks off scent and the wine tastes even better.

And this will be my first year for black raspberry and I'm excited. I have very little on the property but across the road there's about a 1000 ft of it along a drainage ditch.

 

[winemaker81]

I'm amazed at the difference from one year to the next. Last year my honeysuckle had great flavor and very little scent but made a very nice wine. This year I had great flavor AND knock your socks off scent and the wine tastes even better.

Is it possible your picking is having an effect on the plant? E.g., wine grapes are better because of excess buds are removed, so the remaining grapes get the output of the vine.

 

[Clover]

@Jovimaple I have a mini auto-siphon that came with a kit for making gallon batches. I have never been able to get it to work correctly. Looses siphon and gets full of air. I figured I was probably a user error and eventually got too frustrated and gave up on it. Do you think the regular size one works better than the mini? Or is it just me

I had the same problem with my siphon - worked OK at first when I got it, but then later on began to send bubbles down my siphon hose into my carboy, bottles - I was cringing and furious - why is this thing putting all of this air into my wine?? Pinching the hose at the bend, holding the inner part of the pump loosely or tightly within the siphon - sometimes worked to give less or no bubbles, sometimes more bubbles.

So I bought a new one and guess what - no bubbles. Turned out there's a little plastic thing inside the siphon, near the bottom, that had evidently fallen out somehow when I first got it, likely when I was washing it. My new one, with the little thingy, works perfectly. Maybe that's what's happened to yours.

 

[BigDaveK]

Is it possible your picking is having an effect on the plant? E.g., wine grapes are better because of excess buds are removed, so the remaining grapes get the output of the vine.

I can understand that reasoning with various fruit. But with flowers blooming daily? Who knows. Anything is possible with Mother Nature.

 

[Raptor99]

The berries ripen at different times, even on the same plant, depending on how much sun they receive. So I think that it is good to pick them as they ripen and put them in the freezer. Then when you have enough, you can thaw them and start your wine.

@Newbie Mel I think that 8 lbs. of blackberries would be good for 1 gallon of wine.

 

[Newbie Mel]

My recipe says to add pectic enzymes and yeast nutrients 12 hours after starting the must and 12 hours later pitch the yeast. If I am using a yeast starter I am assuming I skip adding nutrients with the pectic enzymes at the 12 hour mark. Is that correct?

 

[Jovimaple]

No, you still need the nutrients. Although I don't know why you need to wait 12 hours to add them. I just mix everything up at once, at least after the frozen berries are thawed.

Once the fermentation has started, you can add more nutrients at about 1/3 of its progress. For example, if my original specific gravity is 1.090ish, I would add the second half of the nutrients when the SG gets down to 1.060 or a little lower. It doesn't have to be exact.

The nutrients you add to the starter are only to jump start the yeast and help them to build their colony.

Edited to add that it IS important to wait 12+ hours after adding kmeta to the must, before adding your starter. I stir it right before pitching the starter, to get rid of any lingering effects of the kmeta (even though most wine yeast is bred to be able to tolerate it somewhat). Stirring right before pitching the starter also gets more oxygen in the must, which the yeast need for reproduction. Once the starter is poured in, I leave it alone for a day or so, then after that, I stir it and punch down any fruit (the "cap") once a day.

 

[Newbie Mel]

No, you still need the nutrients. Although I don't know why you need to wait 12 hours to add them. I just mix everything up at once, at least after the frozen berries are thawed.

Once the fermentation has started, you can add more nutrients at about 1/3 of its progress. For example, if my original specific gravity is 1.090ish, I would add the second half of the nutrients when the SG gets down to 1.060 or a little lower. It doesn't have to be exact.

The nutrients you add to the starter are only to jump start the yeast and help them to build their colony.

Edited to add that it IS important to wait 12+ hours after adding kmeta to the must, before adding your starter. I stir it right before pitching the starter, to get rid of any lingering effects of the kmeta (even though most wine yeast is bred to be able to tolerate it somewhat). Stirring right before pitching the starter also gets more oxygen in the must, which the yeast need for reproduction. Once the starter is poured in, I leave it alone for a day or so, then after that, I stir it and punch down any fruit (the "cap") once a day.

Thank you! I should know better than to assume anything. That’s why I ask. I so appreciate advice while I am still learning

 

[Raptor99]

No, you still need the nutrients. Although I don't know why you need to wait 12 hours to add them. I just mix everything up at once, at least after the frozen berries are thawed.

Based on advice I received here on WMT, I don't add nutrients until just before I pitch the yeast. You don't need it before that, so why provide nutrients to any potential unwanted organisms in the must?

Starting last year, I have been adding pectic enzyme to my fruit before I freeze it. That way it can begin to work before it freezes and while it is thawing.

 

[David Violante]

Based on advice I received here on WMT, I don't add nutrients until just before I pitch the yeast. You don't need it before that, so why provide nutrients to any potential unwanted organisms in the must?

Interesting... I usually don't add the first nutrients until I see signs of fermentation in the must from when I pitched the yeast (for the reasons you indicated about unwanted organisms). Somewhere around 24 hours after inoculation. Then I follow the same protocol for the remainder, just prior to 1/3 break. If it's a fast fermentation and I want to feed it but slow it down a little I'll break up the total nutrient amount into equal portions and step feed. I suppose since the yeast took off in a starter, 24 hours may not matter much and you would expect your yeast to do well.

I agree with all the previous comments about when to pitch the starter. I use Go-Ferm and also acclimate the starter to the must by adding small amounts of must to the starter when it seems to be doing well.

 

[Raptor99]

@David Violante I usually add the yeast in stages as well. With a strong starter, I have discovered that 24 hours is sometimes too long for the first yeast nutrient addition. By that time the yeast are always stressed. So now I do the first nutrient addition after 12 hours, or at yeast pitch.

 

[Jovimaple]

I hadn't thought about the nutrients feeding other organisms. My process is changing as of today! I will now add the nutrients with the yeast.

I have a FWK Cab Sav ordered. It will be my first test of my new nutrient protocol!

 

[Newbie Mel]

Help, please! I pitched yeast Sunday afternoon on my blackberry wine. Today, Wednesday, I checked the SG thinking it was close to time to add more nutrient. The reading is .990. Is that unusual after 3 days and no additional nutrient? Should I be concerned with such a fast ferment? Temperature in house is around 72 degrees, there was never a lot of foam in the must. Could my hydrometer be broken? I’m trying to get ahold of a second hydrometer to test again. Should I hurry up and rack and get under airlock?

 

[Jovimaple]

First of all, your wine is fine - there's enough CO2 to blanket it for a few days and protect against oxidation.

While that is a fast ferment, it's not unusual. Doublecheck that you are reading the hydrometer correctly - that it's floating freely in the sample, etc.

You can certainly put it under airlock now. While many of us ferment in an open bucket with a towel or loose cover, others do the whole ferment under airlock. You're not going to hurt anything if you DO rack it and it's not really done fermenting. Yeast need oxygen at the beginning, when they're building the colony. It's less important as the fermentation process continues.

What was the starting SG?

What kind of yeast? (Some are foamy and some are stealthy in their work.)

Did you end up using a yeast starter, so the yeast hit the ground running?

This is a one gallon batch, correct?

 

[Newbie Mel]

First of all, your wine is fine - there's enough CO2 to blanket it for a few days and protect against oxidation.

While that is a fast ferment, it's not unusual. Doublecheck that you are reading the hydrometer correctly - that it's floating freely in the sample, etc.

You can certainly put it under airlock now. While many of us ferment in an open bucket with a towel or loose cover, others do the whole ferment under airlock. You're not going to hurt anything if you DO rack it and it's not really done fermenting. Yeast need oxygen at the beginning, when they're building the colony. It's less important as the fermentation process continues.

What was the starting SG?

What kind of yeast? (Some are foamy and some are stealthy in their work.)

Did you end up using a yeast starter, so the yeast hit the ground running?

This is a one gallon batch, correct?

Yes one gallon batch. OG 1.090. Lalvin 71B and yes used yeast starter. Friend is bringing me a second hydrometer to check again this afternoon. I haven’t tasted yet. I’ve been squeezing fruit bag 3 times a day for last two days. Only once this morning. I haven’t removed fruit bag yet because had to get back to work, but will do so this afternoon when I recheck SG