Blackberry - up or down?

[back2it]

I have 9kg (20lbs) blackberries and I have to decide if I make a 5 gallon, or 2 gallon batch.

This is my first time making blackberry and would appreciate hearing about your experience and recommendaations.

Thank you
Ray...

 

[David Violante]

I would personally lean towards the 2 gallon batch for more flavor. I’ve seen folks use 5-10 pounds per gallon; there are a lot of recipes either way. They can be pretty tart too… I’ve back sweetened most of mine just enough to take the edge off.

What do you want it to end up as? What is your vision for it?

 

[winemaker81]

Do you mean Imperial or US gallon?

I've never heard of anyone complaining about a fruit wine because of too much fruit, but the reverse happens. From your wording I assume this is not your first wine, so you know enough to start with larger volume (e.g., 2.5 gallons) to ensure you have enough wine to fill the container(s).

 

[Rice_Guy]

Me personally, I would make a five/ 19 liter, and get a neutral flavor juice like apple or white grape as the filler.

The positive side for a high blackberry percentage is that the polyphenols provide antioxidants that can give twenty years of shelf life. The negative is that as polyphenols polymerize they become larger and taste bitter before becoming large enough to drop out of solution / become flavorless.

 

[Ericphotoart]

I didn't post anything for quite some time so I decided to get back to the forum and put some 3 cents here since blackberry wine is something I did twice. The first was 14 lbs/6 gal must, the 2nd was 18 lbs/6 gal must. I can't compare those 2 because I didn't try the 2nd one yet which I started 12.23. I didn't drink any bottle yet. The 1st was was fermented 11.22 and it started to get better after around 18 months when I decided to let it mature for much longer. It was a 10 gallon batch so I still have a plethora ( I love this word it reminds me of "Three Amigos") of bottles.

 

[back2it]

Thanks for all the replies.

The reason I asked is because have I started by making quite inoffensive wines from store frozen fruit or store fruit juices but recently made batch number 16, a rhubarb wine with rhubarb from my allotment and it is turning out to be at a level somewhat above my expectations. Maybe I made a mistake somewhere.

Lately I spent a few days ambling around my local country park gathering wild blackberries as I went I was thinking of my options. I am leaning towards the 2-gallon option and wanted to hear some opinions to help.

To answer a few questions.

What do you want it to end up as? What is your vision for it?

I would like to make a wine that I can appreciate and sip with satisfaction rather than drink for the alcoholic effect (although the second does have a place in my life).

can give twenty years of shelf life

I can wait but to paraphrase Private Ryan “what if I don’t live that long?”

get a neutral flavor juice like apple or white grape as the filler.

Why not add water and sugar for volume, what is the advantage of apple or grape if it's just a filler?

They can be pretty tart too…

The negative is that as polyphenols polymerize they become larger and taste bitter ...

This is one of my concerns with a more concentrated fermentaion so I need to read up on how to manage this. The fruit is frozen and I need to buy a 2 gallon carboy for "secondary" anyway so there is no rush.


Thanks for your help.
Ray...

 

[Rice_Guy]

and I need to buy a 2 gallon carboy Ray...

When you find a source of two gallon carboys, I am looking for nine. A ten liter would be better for racking down from a three gallon.

To make sugar wine adding water works, ,,,, and the folks in accounting like sugar which was 0.28 per pound in a cost of goods calculation, & water is free. As a home winemaker where I don’t care about cost, I choose to make a more expensive product. Grape adds aromatics, ,,, people eat with their nose before they eat with their mouth.

 

[back2it]

When you find a source of two gallon carboys

I am also finding the 2 gallon carboy a little difficult to source. I was thinking about PET but when I move them around they flex and I don't like that.

people eat with their nose before they eat with their mouth

I like that, I will keep it in mind when thinking about my concoctions. Thank you.

Ray...

 

[Rice_Guy]

Making wine is cooking.

If I look at new flavor combinations I try it in a pie. The turn around time for wine is a year, ,,, well half if I push bentonite etc. I can do a pie a week.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I don't like the Fermonster cap since I couldn’t get it to seal/ ie an airlock to bubble. At some point I was hunting for an answer and found 120 mm silicone bowl covers. Since then I have used them for the initial six months, ,, but not years of storage. When it stops outgassing I add a glass plate on top of the silicone (silicone transmits oxygen).
View attachment 104595
I currently have two Fermonsters and an assortment of other food grade PET with 120 mm threads and a few 120 mm glass. (The photo is a two gallon glass WallyWorld pickle jar.)

There are five or six real 10 liter glass carboys for #9 cork that are in the vinters club. I wish I had one for each three gallon I own.

 

[back2it]

Making wine is cooking.

I have two cooking recipes that I am proud of. Beans on toast and toast under beans. I was banned from the kitchen when I made the kids pasta, tuna and mayo. They loved it but I was no longer allowed to be in charge of food prep (no veg). Now they're all growed up, I feed them wine

There are five or six real 10 liter glass carboys for #9 cork that are in the vinters club

If you know what the alarm system is, I can pass them out the window to you. Split 50/50. I get the bottom half to hold the wine and you get the neck to fit the #9 corks.

Ray...

 

[Raptor99]

Me personally, I would make a five/ 19 liter, and get a neutral flavor juice like apple or white grape as the filler.

How does apple juice affect the flavor of the blackberry wine? I am about to start a batch of blackberry, so this is very relevant to me.

 

[Hazelemere]

I have 9kg (20lbs) blackberries and I have to decide if I make a 5 gallon, or 2 gallon batch.

This is my first time making blackberry and would appreciate hearing about your experience and recommendaations.

Thank you
Ray...

Add 6 lbs blackberries to 1 Imperial gallon water with 3 lbs sugar i.e. ~3.5 Imperial gallons of water 10.5 lbs sugar to 20 lbs blackberries with pectic enzyme and nutrient. I'd use RC212 yeast. You should get enough wine to fill a 25 bottle carboy or a 15 bottle carboy + 6 bottle Imperial gallon and possible two 5 bottle American gallons..

 

[Rice_Guy]

How does apple juice affect the flavor of the blackberry wine? I am about to start a batch of blackberry, so this is very relevant to me.

1) it will give fruity aromatics, depending upon apple this could be an unidentified generic fruit or if high levels of a table apple a definite apple note. The stronger aroma will dominate.
2) Apple is high in malic acid which provide sharp notes like apple. Some Wild lactic fermentations that use malic can metabolize glycerol from the yeast producing acrolin which gives bitter notes. A fix is pH below 3.3 plus liberal metabisulphite or at pH 3.5 adding lysozyme.

 

[hounddawg]

I at times use apple juice as filler for blackberry, as well as my blackberry/elderberry 50/50 mix,
apples and white grape tend to be good fillers instead of water. IMHO.
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

www.colomafrozen.com give these concentrates a look
Dawg

 

[BigDaveK]

apples and white grape tend to be good fillers instead of water

Yup.
Water should be used for soup, stock, and broth.

 

[back2it]

www.colomafrozen.com give these concentrates a look

Now THAT is a darned good idea and I will.

Water should be used for soup, stock, and broth.

Noted

Thank you
Ray...

 

[hounddawg]

1) it will give fruity aromatics, depending upon apple this could be an unidentified generic fruit or if high levels of a table apple a definite apple note. The stronger aroma will dominate.
2) Apple is high in malic acid which provide sharp notes like apple. Some Wild lactic fermentations that use malic can metabolize glycerol from the yeast producing acrolin which gives bitter notes. A fix is pH below 3.3 plus liberal metabisulphite or at pH 3.5 adding lysozyme.

@Rice_Guy , man i am saving up for a translator , but those as smart as you with all them big wordz, well they what a fortune to dumb it down enough for me to understand,
Dawg

 

[Rice_Guy]

@Rice_Guy , man i am saving up for a translator , but those as smart as you with all them big wordz, well they what a fortune to dumb it down enough for me to understand,
Dawg

The thirty second version:

Traditional ciders were done with a mixture of apples. They have names like
Sharps (acidic)
Bitter Sweets
Sweets
Bitter Sharps (spitters)
It is important to have a variety of apples to have enough acid to last.