Other Bottling vs Bulk Aging

[Oldwiner9r]

My current go to batch is a Nov 2015 Lodi Ranch 11 and it is very good now. It has enough nose (not great by any means, but is has a nose), nice structure, good taste and is smooth. I'm very happy with it. I will probably drink it till I have a dozen bottles left, them move them to my 'reserve' rack to age to 3 years when I'll start drinking some of my batch of Cab which is a Jan 2016 that was my first barrel aged wine. Again, I will leave a dozen of them to go to the three year mark. And so on and so on.

I have a RJS Super Tuscan that I made in July of 2016 and had a split last week. It's coming along very nicely. It hasn't made the magical transformation yet, but I can tell it's getting there. You should like them both.

I'm also interested in barrel aging Lodi 11. Just bought two kit-sized oak barrels. Can you tell me more about the back end of the process. Do you sterilize and stabilize with the sorbate before or after you move to the barrel or skip all together.

 

[AZMDTed]

There's a lot of good info in here about barrel care @boatboy and @Johnd have posted lots of good info and I've learned much from them. When using a barrel make sure to follow the barrel prep instructions closely. After that I will use a mix of kmeta and citric acid mix to sanitize the barrel. For a 23 liter barrel I will add a 1/4 tsp of kmeta to a bit of wine or water and put that in the barrel before I fill it with wine.

I find that I need to top it off every two weeks due to evaporation. Every other one of those topping offs I will again mix in 1/4 tsp of kmeta into the wine I'm about to add. That has worked well for me.

For my reds, I've stopped using sorbate altogether. I haven't had any issues.

 

[crushday]

My first year of winemaking I made the wine by the kit instructions, to include bottling at 8 weeks. My oldest batch is a WineXpert Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 which will be three years next month. I am drinking a couple batches that are over two years now as well, all made by the book. They are excellent wines, really quality wines. The last year and a half I've been bulk aging, barrel aging, extended maceration and going for the extra umph. Too early to tell how much all of that will add to my wine when they reach two or three years. But I can tell you, that if you make high end kits by the book, and let them bottle age, and they're properly degassed, you will have wine that you can be very proud of in two years, and moreso in three.

Make what you can, how you can, then leave some of them alone for a couple years to really see how they shine. Don't fret over what you can't do.

Hey, AZMDTed - quick question: I've discovered the Lodi Ranch 11 Cab Sauv tastes sweet to me after 1 year aging in the bottle. I made the kit according to the instructions and bottled on the timeline. How does, or did, yours compare?

 

[bstnh1]

I stick with the WE Selection series and have always been satisfied. I buy the kits and all supplies from Labelpeelers.

 

[GaDawg]

Hey, AZMDTed - quick question: I've discovered the Lodi Ranch 11 Cab Sauv tastes sweet to me after 1 year aging in the bottle. I made the kit according to the instructions and bottled on the timeline. How does, or did, yours compare?

I don't believe you can do a fair comparison. Different fermentation temp, condition, different grapes etc.

 

[bstnh1]

I don't believe you can do a fair comparison. Different fermentation temp, condition, different grapes etc.

Hmmmmm ....... not to confrontational, but it seems to me that there's usually a general consensus on the outcome (taste sweetness, body, etc.) of a wine kit. At least that's what I gather from reading comments and reviews on most kits.

 

[GaDawg]

Hmmmmm ....... not to confrontational, but it seems to me that there's usually a general consensus on the outcome (taste sweetness, body, etc.) of a wine kit. At least that's what I gather from reading comments and reviews on most kits.

I'm just speaking for me, but I can't produce the same result on each kit I do. Not that one is good and the next is bad but each time is different.

 

[AZMDTed]

Hey, AZMDTed - quick question: I've discovered the Lodi Ranch 11 Cab Sauv tastes sweet to me after 1 year aging in the bottle. I made the kit according to the instructions and bottled on the timeline. How does, or did, yours compare?

Hi, none of mine have tasted sweet to my taste. We may have different tastes and sensitivity. I’ve made probably 15 or more batches of Lodi Cab and haven’t had any come out sweet. I let them ferment dry. Sorry, I can’t help explain your situation. Good luck

 

[CUZN_J]

Hi,

I see mostly everyone bulk ages, but unfortunately I can't do that. I live in a small apartment and only have space for a conical fermenter. Basically, I can only do on batch at a time. And I bottle once the instructions say so. That also means I have to add all the chemicals to clear since I don't have the benefit of bulk aging. My question is, will my wine quality decline because I don't bulk age? I'll still be aging in the bottle for two years before drinking.

Also does adding the clearing agents (which I have no choice but to add them) alter the flavor of the wine. And if so, do they go away once bottle has aged for two years?

Thanks!

WOW, I have a little extra room here, but find myself with sort of same problem, At first I made mine and bottled it, then I heard in bulk, so I bulked the rest in glass carboys in dark place, I just can't seem to get the fact that you shoot for 2-3 years or more, first I want something to drink now without going and buy , that is the reason I started making my own, right now I have some that has made it almost 6 months, and I am out so it will be opened shortly, It looks like I might be able to get to the 2 year mark in about 2 years,I don't make a batch of 5 gallons about every month or month and half, not enough equipment on hand, and too much work for eme seeing that Iam in a wheelchair going on 40 years, so I am slowly getting to that point, still I can keep a 5 gallon carboy in a lot smaller space than 5 gallons of bottled and boxed wine.. I mean once the first 2months of making it has done about all it is going to do but clear, so placing in the back of a closet on the floor it takes small amount of room. btw I am not a big drinker maybe 4 to 4-1/2 oz after supper every day, but still 5 gallons doesn't last long,, I have gave 5 or 6 bottles away for some feedback on taste, all positive so far.

 

[meadmaker1]

WOW, I have a little extra room here, but find myself with sort of same problem, At first I made mine and bottled it, then I heard in bulk, so I bulked the rest in glass carboys in dark place, I just can't seem to get the fact that you shoot for 2-3 years or more, first I want something to drink now without going and buy , that is the reason I started making my own, right now I have some that has made it almost 6 months, and I am out so it will be opened shortly, It looks like I might be able to get to the 2 year mark in about 2 years,I don't make a batch of 5 gallons about every month or month and half, not enough equipment on hand, and too much work for eme seeing that Iam in a wheelchair going on 40 years, so I am slowly getting to that point, still I can keep a 5 gallon carboy in a lot smaller space than 5 gallons of bottled and boxed wine.. I mean once the first 2months of making it has done about all it is going to do but clear, so placing in the back of a closet on the floor it takes small amount of room. btw I am not a big drinker maybe 4 to 4-1/2 oz after supper every day, but still 5 gallons doesn't last long,, I have gave 5 or 6 bottles away for some feedback on taste, all positive so far.

If its just gona sit get racked every three months and get bottled as is, i would think the advantage is in bottle aging( less handling ). But if an ehh wine can benefit from an acid adjustment, oaking or a blend of some sort, AND you are likely to make these adjustments over time, then bulk is clearly the way to go.
That same ehh wine could also become omg wine in six months, with no adjustments at all, after waiting you would be pleased that you hadn't changed and bottled it.

 

[Frosty]

I have done brewing during 3 different periods in my life. As a teenager I made wine with whatever fruit I could get. Emphasis was not on quality.

In my early 20’s I made beer kits. They were fine but not exceptional. I’m now 60 and have been making high end kits since 2001. I do mostly Eclipse and Limited Releases kits. I do believe in quality kits and age the Reds for 1 year before drinking.

I did bulk age but correspondence with the kit makers convinced me there is little advantage. I do use all the stabilizers and leave the wine in bulk for 2 to 3 months during the clearing phase. I rack as little as possible to avoid exposure to O2. I usually bottle with out racking right down to the lees. I do keep the siphon hose up from the sediment and set aside the last few bottles as they may have some sediment.

I’m not saying I have it right but it works for me.

My suggestion if you want wine to drink now before a year of aging there are 2 options. Reds with high tannins and lots of oak need time. Go for lower tannin varietals. I think mid priced kits are often a better option than bold high end kits. When young the Big Reds have rough edges. Oak maybe overpowering. Consentrating the grape must, makes them age more quickly, so 10 to 12 litre kits are ready sooner. However they are typically not as full bodied as 16 to 18 litre kits and grape skins also help for a full bodied wine.

With whites it is a different story. We like a light crisp summer drink. When they are new they are often crisper. For a light wine the intermediate kits may be better ( I have found that in blind taste tests.) I try and do one in the spring for that summer. If some is left for the second summer it is fruitier but not as crisp. I don’t stock pile whites.

I’m less confident in my opinions of whites because I make a lot less than Reds. For Reds I try and always have between 100 and 250 bottles. I have not had any deteriorate from overaging.

So to start I’d suggest a 10 to 12 litre kit with a low tannin varietal. For top end we really like the Eclipse Zinfandel and Shiraz. These are relitively early to mature. They are pretty good at 6 months but continue to improve. I try to always put aside until the 1 year mark.

Your tastes may differ from mine and so may your opinions. The good thing is that most kits are fairly robust so many different approaches work. So have fun.

 

[GaDawg]

Y’all that age your wine in a carboy, when you sample ( for quality control ). What do you do with the head space? Do you top up, leave the head space, what do you top up with? How does it Work?

 

[Johnd]

Y’all that age your wine in a carboy, when you sample ( for quality control ). What do you do with the head space? Do you top up, leave the head space, what do you top up with? How does it Work?

Typically, when sampling and adjusting, only a very small quantity of wine is removed / sampled, and in a well topped carboy, it doesn't require any additional topping up. If it does, a little shot from a bottle the next time I'm topping barrels fills it up. If you decide to add oak to the carboy after tasting, you'll typically have to remove wine to make room for the oak volume. When I do sample tasting from barrels, again, small quantity, I normally don't do anything until the next scheduled topping. I always have a number of bottles around that don't have fancy labels or capsules on them, just a freezer tape label, and are always available to top up carboys / barrels.