So Ive been carboy aging for about three months and I don't want to top up anymore, the only option is to rack down or purchase marbles. Marbles sound like a pain, racking down is also a pain as I don't have smaller caboys. Do you guys find bulk aging a pain? I think at this point I want to bottle which should hopefully speed up aging a little bit aswell since the wine seems to be aging slowly in the carboy.
Bulk aging a pain
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There should be less and less top up as most of the sediment has dropped by now. There will be more if you haven’t used a clearing agent. Even when there is barely and sediment another variable is that I have four “6 gallon” carboys but they are all slightly different sizes.
As for the continuous top up...I think nothing of it adding 1/3 to 1/2 bottle of similar wine every 3 months...might be a different story if I were using water but I would never do that.
As for the continuous top up...I think nothing of it adding 1/3 to 1/2 bottle of similar wine every 3 months...might be a different story if I were using water but I would never do that.
Odd... I bulk age in glass carboys for 12-18 months and never have to top off after the initial fill. What kind of stopper are you using? I use solid silicone bungs.
Before I was thermostatically controlled, if I did see any level changes it was because of temperature changes. But, now that I am therostatically controlled at 58 degrees I never see level changes.
Before I was thermostatically controlled, if I did see any level changes it was because of temperature changes. But, now that I am therostatically controlled at 58 degrees I never see level changes.
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After that initial rack top-up, I never add much more than 1/3 - 1/2 of a bottle to top-up. and even if I did, I wouldn't see as that big a deal. Let's say you end up with 3 full bottles (and I doubt I have ever approached even 2), it is still 90% your original work and the taste difference is just so insignificant as to not matter. Pour 90 ml of your favorite wine into a glass, then add 10 ml of some real plonk. Now taste, can you really tell the difference?? Maybe to make it more fair, do 2 glasses, the second having 100 ml of just your favorite and have someone move them around, so you don't know which is which.
Always wanted to try that actually...I might aswell
Perhaps I'm sampling the carboys to much lol, however yes my carboys seem like they are slightly different sizes..so that's part of the issue. The higher end kits always drop more sediment aswell so they tend to require more top ups it seems...on average around 3 bottles. I use standard water locks filled with Sulphites, however I have never really bulk aged more than 4 months. I always say I will try and bulk age, but end up filtering and bottling to free up carboys. I purchased two additional carboys though now so I have that option.
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I always plan for an overage on the initial making of the wine. Example this year is I made a 60 gallon barrel of Cab Franc, my net yield was 70 gallons (barrel + two 5 gallon carboys). Once the wine completed mlf, I bottled one of the carboys, so I would have for topping. The topping wine bottles will throw a lot of sediment and will have minimal oak / no blending, but it is dedicated strictly for topping.
Same thought could be applied to carboy quantities. Make more and just bottle it when it is done AF or MLF and just use for topping/racking.
Same thought could be applied to carboy quantities. Make more and just bottle it when it is done AF or MLF and just use for topping/racking.
LouisCKpasteur
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I can see having to top up significantly on the the last racking to an aging carboy - expecially doing premium kits - maybe it's obvious you're only going to get 27 bottles so 3 to top off for sure - BUT - I don't see why you should have to top up after that (ie, I don't see why you are losing wine). I go six months or longer and never have to top up. In fact, mircrooxygenation is precisely for those situations/bulk aging material where you're not losing wine like in oak barrels.
What really killed me recently was I did the Eclipse Nebbiolo for the first time. 27 bottles obvious in the fermenter after everything was said and done. I got plenty of 6 gallon carboys but obviously there was going to be some serious headspace. Nebbiolo is not somethiing I run across at my local market - no Lindemann's Bin 69 Nebbiolo I ever saw on their shelf. So I end up buying 3 bottles at a local shop and I quickly realize there is no cheap Nebbiolo to be had locally. Long story short, those three bottles cost me half of what the kit did! And that was their cheap stuff. There wasn't even enough left over to drink my problem into a slight buzz..
What really killed me recently was I did the Eclipse Nebbiolo for the first time. 27 bottles obvious in the fermenter after everything was said and done. I got plenty of 6 gallon carboys but obviously there was going to be some serious headspace. Nebbiolo is not somethiing I run across at my local market - no Lindemann's Bin 69 Nebbiolo I ever saw on their shelf. So I end up buying 3 bottles at a local shop and I quickly realize there is no cheap Nebbiolo to be had locally. Long story short, those three bottles cost me half of what the kit did! And that was their cheap stuff. There wasn't even enough left over to drink my problem into a slight buzz..
Ouch yeah, I buy the cheap Costco kits for topping up most of my wine...and I use middle of the road kit wines I have to top up higher end kits. I did an excellent nebbiolo 8 months ago, its one tier below the most premium kits with skins by vineco. Excellent wine, my wife likes it better saying it has more flavor than the $30 commercial bottle of Classico supreme that we bought from the wine store. The Classico supreme was supposedly fermented with amarone skins...it was good but the homemade kit nebbilo is better.
dmguptill
Chemist-turned-home-winemaker
I usually get around this problem by topping up with my own wine. I make enough inexpensive kits that I don't worry much about using a <$3 bottle to top up. Even if you did make only higher end kits, at least then you're always adding higher end kit wine to higher end kits.
The other thing I've done is use something like black box for topping up. Relatively cheap (<$5 from total wines), and fairly neutral from a taste perspective, so you aren't changing the flavor much.
The other thing I've done is use something like black box for topping up. Relatively cheap (<$5 from total wines), and fairly neutral from a taste perspective, so you aren't changing the flavor much.
Ajmassa
just a guy
How about just going from a 6gal carboy to a 5gal at that point? With the remainder in a couple bottles.
Any substantial headspace like that just means I’ve got the wrong sized vessel!
Any substantial headspace like that just means I’ve got the wrong sized vessel!
I've done that more than once, good idea. I just add the extra into 375's and they become my taste testers later in the aging process if not used to top up the 5 gallon carboy at some point.
I hear ya on the Nebbiolo! However, if you have a Trader Joe's near you, you can generally get a cheap(ish) version of just about any grape variety.
Or, as @dmguptill suggests, just about any not-too-distinctive red... I'd suggest a cheap Pinot Noir for Nebbiolo.
What I wanted to avoid, purchasing additional carboys and dealing with bottling a few and aging the rest. Just seems like such a hassle, if I had to go that route I think I would just bottle of them.
Has anyone tried one of these for carboy headspace?
https://www.allinonewinepump.com/product/headspace-eliminator/
Ajmassa
just a guy
Eh- not every batch is the same. Some extra different sized vessels when needed saves loads of hassle. Fumbling to make something work without the proper stuff—- you’ll end up spending $100 on some damn topping up wine!
And Yea man the headspace eliminators are clutch. I use em frequently. Not for too long tho. Some people do use em for long stretches I know. Topping up the vacuum every so often. Very handy items. Well worth the purchase.
porkchopmessiah
Senior Member
On this topic I'm curious...head space having O2, I saw earlier this season somebody was flooding the carboy with co2....I just carbonated hard cider regently and have it..any thoughts?
Also after xmas I can post about the vinmetric mlf tester santa is bringing me if you guys are curious
Also after xmas I can post about the vinmetric mlf tester santa is bringing me if you guys are curious
dmguptill
Chemist-turned-home-winemaker
I used a bottle of wine preserve for a while, which is just a can of argon and nitrogen I think. It worked in that I didn't get oxidation, but every time I wanted to taste the wine I had to redo it. It kinda went fast. I prefer topping up...
Ajmassa
just a guy
I bought that too. Seemed interesting — a blend of argon, co2 and nitrogen. Unfortunately the trigger is all or nothing. Tried it out on a carboy with minimal headspace. Blasted wine up to the ceiling.
Between marbles/gas/volume displacing balloons (yea they exist), and even the headspace eliminator— for long term aging; I’m only comfortable with actual wine.
We just need someone to invent a variable capacity carboy and we are set. I think 0-10gal range would suffice just fine.
Ajmassa
just a guy
Congrats on the future new toy. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I don’t think I’ve heard any opinions on that before. I assume being made by Vinmetrica that it’s legit. Keep us posted.
Looking at the OP responses, he has a problem that most of us have - over sampling a bulk aging wine.
Racking after you finish fermentation usually requires a bit of topping up. Then 3 months later, a little topping when you rack it again. But, after that, you might consider skipping the racking and just dose the wine. Thief out a 1/2 cup of wine, dissolve your 1/4tsp of Kmeta in it, then dump it back in the wine. The sediment you’ll get after 3 months is fairly nominal, especially in a kit. So, why rack??
As for the sampling: stop that. Okay, not completely. But, your wine isn’t going to change too much week to week. Try tasting it before you dose it with Kmeta. And, when you taste it, an ounce or two is sufficient.
Racking after you finish fermentation usually requires a bit of topping up. Then 3 months later, a little topping when you rack it again. But, after that, you might consider skipping the racking and just dose the wine. Thief out a 1/2 cup of wine, dissolve your 1/4tsp of Kmeta in it, then dump it back in the wine. The sediment you’ll get after 3 months is fairly nominal, especially in a kit. So, why rack??
As for the sampling: stop that. Okay, not completely. But, your wine isn’t going to change too much week to week. Try tasting it before you dose it with Kmeta. And, when you taste it, an ounce or two is sufficient.
