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Is there a difference between bulk aging and bottle aging? If so what would the differences be?
Bulk vs Bottle
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This question pops up regularly.
In very general terms, "most" of the changes in wine happen during the first 6 months or so and that's a reasonable time to think of bottling.
But...
Some wines take longer. And while in bulk it's changing in a uniform manner. As soon as you bottle you instantly have multiple environments and the bottles could possibly age differently. Also, practicing sur lie and batonnage and oaking is done in bulk.
And if you're short on time or bottles bulk is a good place to park your wine - as long as good wine making practices were followed.
Of course the amount of patience you have plays a part.
Did I miss anything everybody?
In very general terms, "most" of the changes in wine happen during the first 6 months or so and that's a reasonable time to think of bottling.
But...
Some wines take longer. And while in bulk it's changing in a uniform manner. As soon as you bottle you instantly have multiple environments and the bottles could possibly age differently. Also, practicing sur lie and batonnage and oaking is done in bulk.
And if you're short on time or bottles bulk is a good place to park your wine - as long as good wine making practices were followed.
Of course the amount of patience you have plays a part.
Did I miss anything everybody?
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Only thing you might have missed is, it is much easier to open and drink one bottle than to drink or of the carboy, so it can really age.
I wanted to see the difference, so I split my batches to 3 gallon carboys and bottled half. I let it sit in bulk for a few months before bottling and I can't discern any notable difference, although I have not done a side by side comparison to check for subtleties.
I do it now mostly for convenience. It is easier for me to store and move a small carboy than 15 bottles. I also don't have to have as many bottles on hand. I can have 5 varieties in 75 bottles instead of 150.
To dumb down what Dave said. It has been noted on early bottling of a large batch that the bottles tasted different to each other. Aging in bulk allows all the changes in the wine to effect the entire batch equally. I think most people agree 5 months to bottle is a reasonable time frame to avoid this.
I do it now mostly for convenience. It is easier for me to store and move a small carboy than 15 bottles. I also don't have to have as many bottles on hand. I can have 5 varieties in 75 bottles instead of 150.
To dumb down what Dave said. It has been noted on early bottling of a large batch that the bottles tasted different to each other. Aging in bulk allows all the changes in the wine to effect the entire batch equally. I think most people agree 5 months to bottle is a reasonable time frame to avoid this.
Ohio Bob
Senior Member
An important part of bulk aging is the reduced airspace, compared to all the cumulative air spaces in all the bottles.
A general trend, wine in a small container will oxidize faster/ age faster/ turn brown faster. One can reduce the effect by using a tight closure on 750 ml bottles. If you hunt through YouTube the AWRI has done some age tests with closures that have different oxygen transmission rates. The conclusion after that study was that aluminum with a Saran liner had the lowest transmission as 0.1 mg per year where as traditional cork is 5 to 6 mg oxygen per year.
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I’m curious. I’ve just made the switch. What is the oxygen transmission rate for Nomacork?
Depends there are several grades which are produced. The basic closure is built to copy a natural cork at 5 mg oxygen per year. My local store sells Nomacork in brown paper bags of 100 so I will guess they are the basic ones.
https://www.vinventions.com/assets/...llsheet-nomacorc-smartgreen-225-en-us-std.pdfRESERVA are tight and intended for long term aging. They are constructed significantly tighter as .5 to 1 mg oxygen per year.
I'm fairly certain the unlabeled Nomacorcs are Select 900.
That's a good summary.
The only other point I can think of is sediment. Even with use of fining agents, time is required to ensure the wine is clear and doesn't drop sediment in the bottle. Filtering helps, but filtering is for polishing clear wine -- filtering cloudy wine plugs the filters (you can guess how I know this).
You need to taste them side-by-side, and even then you may not notice any difference. I only had one batch that was bottled early and displayed significant bottle variation, although from my POV, one was one too many.
I know I should, but the question I wanted answered was is there a big difference in quality or flavor. Not so much that I need to do it either way. For me it comes down to what makes sense. Time, convenience, bottles available, the alignment of the moon and stars...
I have one that has been in bottles for 9 months. The remainder has been in bulk for about a year. I need to bottle it as the wine rack is thinning quickly. That one I will do a side by side comparison because the time frame is worthy.
winemanden
Senior Member
I don't call 5 months ageing!
We are talking about bottle vs bulk aging. It is often recommended here that new winemakers bottle their wines and label them to open at 3 month intervals so they can track the aging process. There is so much wonder and enthusiasm at the beginning that waiting 5 months is insanity. A year? 2? No way. My kit says 6 weeks! Youtube said delicious wine from welche's juice in 2 weeks!
I tasted my first kits at 3 months. I didn't like it. That earned me all the patience I needed, but I kept making wine and experimenting with recipes to try and get a grip on the hobby. I bottled at 5 months and I have been tracking the development as the wine progressed. Wine making is simple if you let it be. but at the beginning there are SOO many questions that come up. It is easy to overthink and complicate the process.
I agree, I wouldn't consider a 5 month old wine aged. Some may be very drinkable, but for me 5 months is that stage where it becomes a developed enough wine that I would consider bottling. Having bottled at 5 months and then noting the changes in the wine gave me a better understanding of wine, and a deeper appreciation of the flavors and how they develop. My palate is developing as my wines do, and as I continue to make better wine and age it out further I am learning more and more and developing a deeper appreciation.
This is not something you can do by sitting on your first kit as it ages for 2 years. And would I truly appreciate that wine without the understanding gained over time?
My point about 5 months was that at that point one could consider bottle aging without possible glaring differences amongst the bottles, but bottle aging without time spent in bulk is not recommended as @winemaker81 has noted differences in bottles of the same batch when bottled young.. 3 months?
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IIRC, it was 2 months. Kit was an 8 week kit, so I tried bottling at 8 weeks. NEVER again. My minimum is 4 months, and that's for lighter whites and reds, and fruits.
Note that this only happened once that I noticed, but once was enough. I was originally taught the 1-3-3 rule, so bottling was no sooner than 4 months. I've found that a lot (but not all) of the old rules make sense.
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I will throw out a couple exceptions to the bottle age for 4 months rule. Skeeter Pee, Dragons Blood, Orchard Breezin, and Island Mist type of kits. Even with the last two augmented to be about 10%ABV they can be bottled on just about the timelines the kit manufacturers suggest, let them get over bottle shock for 2-4 weeks, chill and drink. They work out just fine for a warm summer evening buzz.
Agreed.
What kits have you made that were nice. I wanted a simple sipper for sitting on the deck when the neighbour pops over. I tried a Miami Vice, I added half of the flavor pack to primary the rest to back sweeten. I've had it sitting around for months an inch or 2 low in the carboy. I found it sickly fake with pina colada flavor. Not sweet, just bleghh
. I decided to try it after sampling a pina colada in the LHBS which was light and well blended. This one is not. I couldn't decide what to do, so I have done nothing.Anyway, short story long, any recommendations?
Another advantage of bulk aging is that for most wines the majority of the changes due to aging take place in the first 6 months. If you bulk age before bottling, you can taste the aged wine before deciding on your pre-bottling additions such as acid adjustments, glycerin, or back sweetening. If you bottle too early, it is difficult to tell what adjustments to make.
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I now bulk age for 9-12 months. Reason is I bottled a Riesling at six months because my dad’s health was failing and he wanted a taste. The result was every time I put it in the refrigerator, the bottom of the bottle was loaded with wine diamonds. Don’t think I let it settle out long enough.
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What kits have you made that were nice. I wanted a simple sipper for sitting on the deck when the neighbour pops over. I tried a Miami Vice, I added half of the flavor pack to primary the rest to back sweeten. I've had it sitting around for months an inch or 2 low in the carboy. I found it sickly fake with pina colada flavor. Not sweet, just bleghh
Anyway, short story long, any recommendations?
Peach Apricot (used to be called Chardonnay) is always a favorite. Only real tweak I make to it is bumping the abv up 4 lbs sugar at the start, entire flavor pak. The Green Apple one is generating well liked and the Black Cherry one. You can't expect these to be great and wonderful wines, but they are sweet wine people pleasers.
Bulk vs Bottle .... not sure my intention is to let my wine age in the bottle but more of a goal to have a few bottles to drink sooner and keep the remaining wine in a 3 gallon carboy for the remainder of bulk aging.
So I also split a batch this week for the second time in my wine making career! lol. Raspberry Vintners Best was started in March so its not been bulk aging very long but I'm OUT of raspberry wine. I'll have a few bottles to drink this summer, and bottle the rest in say 4-5 months. My goal is to hold back a bottle from this weeks bottling, and compare to the November bottling. Again, its a Vintners Best raspberry so its not a high quality kit but I'm wanting to see if there is a difference.
Is there a downside to splitting the 23 liter batch after only 3-5 months in bulk aging, bottling 15 to drink now and bottling the rest in another 4-5 months or longer?
Downside? You've must to take the time to prepare, clean, do the work , clean some more ... but I'm retired and got that kind of time on my hands. My wine pump makes transfers and bottling a breeze. And clean up is one tube when transferring and two tubes when bottling. IDK Probably a dumb question but wondered how many others do this and is there another downside? It actually gave me something to do inside this week while it was 90* outside.
