Central Valley Grenache

[Jbu60]

Made a blend of grenache from central valley grapes this past fall and the colour is lacking. I recall reading some comments here about this type of grenache being very light. Is this really a thing?

I also read a description of some imported grenache grapes from Spain and they also specifically mentioned that their grenache was much darker than the california variety. So, again, my question - is this really a thing with central valley grenache?

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Grenache is well known for having color issues, Its a difficult grape to obtain color from. At work last fall we had to cold soak it for 5 days and use laffort Grand Cru Enzymes to get color out of it, even after all that it was extremely pale like Pinot Noir.

 

[mainshipfred]

There are different species (if that's the right description) Grenache Noir, Blanc and one other I can't think of right now. I believe what is mostly grown in California is Grenache Blanc and you can only get so much color out of it.

 

[sour_grapes]

There are different species (if that's the right description) Grenache Noir, Blanc and one other I can't think of right now. I believe what is mostly grown in California is Grenache Blanc and you can only get so much color out of it.

If one cultivar is a noir, and another is a blanc, I am guessing the third is a gris. Grenache Gris - White Wine Grape Variety | Wine-Searcher

 

[mainshipfred]

If one cultivar is a noir, and another is a blanc, I am guessing the third is a gris. Grenache Gris - White Wine Grape Variety | Wine-Searcher

After looking at the link you provided I believe it is gris that is grown mostly in California. At least that is what mine looked like.

 

[Jbu60]

Here's some pics of the Grenache that was available last fall in my area. They don't look like Grenache Gris to me...they look a little darker. The Gris seems especially light. I ended up buying the M&V brand. What do you guys think?

 

[mainshipfred]

Here's some pics of the Grenache that was available last fall in my area. They don't look like Grenache Gris to me...they look a little darker. The Gris seems especially light. I ended up buying the M&V brand. What do you guys think?

View attachment 85272
View attachment 85273

Looks like Noir to me. Mine have always been much lighter.

 

[Tim3]

As Nebbiolo020 pointed out, Grenache is known for being light in color, lower in tannin, and high in sugar. Color can be coaxed out of it, but it takes a cold soak or the use of enzymes and fermentation tannins. Any grape from Central Valley, CA will generally be lighter in color as the vineyards there produce mainly bulk wine and are highly irrigated and rarely cropped for quality. The commercial wine that comes from those grapes usually has Mega Purple added to compensate for the color.

 

[Jbu60]

I recently heard about the technique of lightly pressing and bleeding off 10-30% of the rose juice immediately after harvest in an attempt to create a more concentrated and darker red wine. If you increase the juice-to-skin ratio in this manner, does it really work? Does the increased concentration create a darker wine? If so, I'd be interested in trying this out with Grenache, and other Central Valley grapes...

I heard this is the basic technique that is used to make Beaujolais. Last time I opened up a bottle of Beaujolais I was blown away at how dark the wine was - and yet its made from the gamay grape, one of the lightest red grapes out there.

 

[Tim3]

Good call! What you’re mentioning is called Saignee, and yes it works. It’s typically done with Pinot Noir, and generally performed when water backing is done to decrease brix so the ratio of juice to skins remains the same. It seems like it would be a good option here as well.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

There are different species (if that's the right description) Grenache Noir, Blanc and one other I can't think of right now. I believe what is mostly grown in California is Grenache Blanc and you can only get so much color out of it.

Grenache noir is super common, in cali Grenache blanc is used for sparkling wines and not popular cause it’s acidic and tart and not pleasant otherwise.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

As Nebbiolo020 pointed out, Grenache is known for being light in color, lower in tannin, and high in sugar. Color can be coaxed out of it, but it takes a cold soak or the use of enzymes and fermentation tannins. Any grape from Central Valley, CA will generally be lighter in color as the vineyards there produce mainly bulk wine and are highly irrigated and rarely cropped for quality. The commercial wine that comes from those grapes usually has Mega Purple added to compensate for the color.

Mega purple is not good stuff, we used Laffort He Grand Cru for our enzyme on the Grenache we did last fall, we also used Laffort VR Supra tannins, and a 5 day cold soak, the Grenache we had is used in about 5 different wines we blend it into 2 different gsm’s a varietal Grenache and into the budget vin rouge red wine which is basically what’s left of everything blended together.

 

[Joe B.]

I grow and make wine out of 2 clones of Grenache one is from cuttings taken from a old vine vineyard in the Central Valley the other is a French Tabales Creek clone. The French clone makes a wine that is considerably darker than the old California clone when I have fermented them separate. I now ferment them together saignee and use enzymes.

 

[Jbu60]

I grow and make wine out of 2 clones of Grenache one is from cuttings taken from a old vine vineyard in the Central Valley the other is a French Tabales Creek clone. The French clone makes a wine that is considerably darker than the old California clone when I have fermented them separate. I now ferment them together saignee and use enzymes.

What percentage of saignee rose do you pull off in order to create a dark red? I read somewhere that the range is 10-30%. Does 10% really make a difference? I want to try it but I think 30% would be better...?

 

[Nebbiolo020]

What percentage of saignee rose do you pull off in order to create a dark red? I read somewhere that the range is 10-30%. Does 10% really make a difference? I want to try it but I think 30% would be better...?

At work last fall we took as much as 50% out of various wines and sold what we took to a distillery which turned it into hand sanitizer.

 

[winemaker81]

At work last fall we took as much as 50% out of various wines and sold what we took to a distillery which turned it into hand sanitizer.

Why sell the juice vs. making one or more rose from it? This is simple curiosity on my part.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Why sell the juice vs. making one or more rose from it? This is simple curiosity on my part.

Because we didn’t produce rose wines and the distillery paid better than making a rose.

 

[winemaker81]

Because we didn’t produce rose wines and the distillery paid better than making a rose.

Makes perfect sense to me!!!

 

[ChuckD]

I’ll bet it was some fine hand sanitizer though! During that time when every distillery was making hand sanitizer I picked up a bottle that smelled just like whiskey…. Honest officer… it’s the hand sanitizer!!

 

[Nebbiolo020]

I’ll bet it was some fine hand sanitizer though! During that time when every distillery was making hand sanitizer I picked up a bottle that smelled just like whiskey…. Honest officer… it’s the hand sanitizer!!

We used the sanitizer in the winery lol it smelled like fruit and they had another made from whiskey that smelled like caramel candy not even joking.