RJ Spagnols Chilean Merlot appears to have gone bad...

[Wicks]

In this wine; there are two possibilities (IMO),
1. it is oxidized: this was what I originally assumed, however, the sulfur smell indicates yeast stress. I am familiar with the smell of oxidized wine, but, describing it is a bit subjective so here is Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault
2. Yeast Stress: Detecting yeast stress is possible during fermentation, but, until you have experienced it (possibly more than once) it can be tricky. The fermenting wine will give off sulfurous odors that may be subtle. If you do suspect it; you can, and, should add some yeast nutrient. The taste of a wine that has been subjected to yeast stress is tricky as well, it definitely doesn't taste right, but I am at a loss to describe it. It is apparently possible to diagnose a yeast stressed wine by placing some copper into the wine, but, I cannot find a link (it will discolor), and, there are treatments for yeast stress wine that use copper, or, copper compounds.
The picture showing the level of wine in the carboy shouldn't have caused oxidation in a short period of time, so this tends to argue for yeast stress which should not happen in a kit, and, should be a reason for RJS to provide a new kit under warranty.

Wow, there's a lot of faults to look out for.
I emailed RJS last week, no reply yet. Guess we'll see what they say.
Thx for the feedback. Lots to think about.

To answer some above questions.

1. Leaving out sorbate will not affect your aging times. Since you are making a dry wine, there is absolutely no reason for it......assuming your sanitizing is good. All the sorbate does is prevent the yeast from multiplying; so IF you were backsweetening, another fermentation will not happen.

2. A 6-8 week old wine kit will never taste good (unless doing those island mist type kits). I have found that it takes a good 10 months for even a 12l kit to come around for my taste. Patience is everything......so while one ages, make another one or two kits to get that inventory up!!!!

Interesting. Guess I can leave out the sorbate next time and compare.
Yeah I dont expect the wine to be awesome right after the 6-8 weeks but right now its not drinkable whatsoever.
Haha, I do need to improve my inventory!
I am anxious to get into another kit and give it another try.

 

[Wicks]

I would guess excess co2 combined with a young wine recently sulfited is the main issue exaggerating the acid sour taste and aroma. If it is stored at 58F, when your sample in the glass starts to warm up to room temperature it will release co2, which increases the perception of the above mentioned issues. I would top up and continue to age according to schedule, if you are in a hurry you can warm up to 75 and degas again, but certainly don't toss the wine.

So over the weekend, I heated the carboy up to 75F, racked to my big mouth bubbler and degassed again.
Pic of after degassing is attached.
Foamed up a lot more then I expected. Not sure if that was interal gas or whether I aerated it a bit? But lots of foam.
Hit it with two 10min sessions of degassing and afterwards the foam appeared to decrease.
Then I added some potassium bicarbonate to try and reduce the acid level a bit.
Then re-reacked back to the carboy to sit for a while.
In tasting a bit after the process, it was improved but still strong smelling and the taste was still off.
I got a response from RJS. They wanted to know the sanitation procedures which I provided. They said that they had not heard of issues with this particular batch but that everything I mentioned sounded like the correct procedure.
So they're in the process of sending me another kit.
Impressed with the customer service of RJS so far.
I'll leave the original batch sit though for a while and see what happens.

 

[Wicks]

Hi All,
Update.
I completed this first batch and it had a strong chemical taste to it. Not really drinkable as far as I'm concerned.
RJS sent me the second batch as a replacement and I made that one.
Sat in my basement for a good 5 months I believe.
Bottled it a couple weeks ago and it too has a similar chemical taste yet not as bad.
I switched from Sodium Metabisulfate to Potassium Metabisulfate and used half as much as directed, if I remember correctly.

I can't think of what might have went wrong but these batches are not what I expected and not really drinkable to me.

Do you guys use all the directed ingredients in these kits as far as sterilizers and clearing agents?
I'm temped to try my 3rd batch without any of the chemicals....since from what I read, these kits are supposed to be pretty bulletproof.

 

[CK55]

Hi All,
Update.
I completed this first batch and it had a strong chemical taste to it. Not really drinkable as far as I'm concerned.
RJS sent me the second batch as a replacement and I made that one.
Sat in my basement for a good 5 months I believe.
Bottled it a couple weeks ago and it too has a similar chemical taste yet not as bad.
I switched from Sodium Metabisulfate to Potassium Metabisulfate and used half as much as directed, if I remember correctly.

I can't think of what might have went wrong but these batches are not what I expected and not really drinkable to me.

Do you guys use all the directed ingredients in these kits as far as sterilizers and clearing agents?
I'm temped to try my 3rd batch without any of the chemicals....since from what I read, these kits are supposed to be pretty bulletproof.

if you are adding tap water that might be doing it. Its not what you are adding i assure you, without the chemicals it wont last as long

 

[Johnd]

Hi All,
Update.
I completed this first batch and it had a strong chemical taste to it. Not really drinkable as far as I'm concerned.
RJS sent me the second batch as a replacement and I made that one.
Sat in my basement for a good 5 months I believe.
Bottled it a couple weeks ago and it too has a similar chemical taste yet not as bad.
I switched from Sodium Metabisulfate to Potassium Metabisulfate and used half as much as directed, if I remember correctly.

I can't think of what might have went wrong but these batches are not what I expected and not really drinkable to me.

Do you guys use all the directed ingredients in these kits as far as sterilizers and clearing agents?
I'm temped to try my 3rd batch without any of the chemicals....since from what I read, these kits are supposed to be pretty bulletproof.

Sodium meta. is fine for sterilizing tools, but not what you want to add to your kit wine, potassium meta. is the proper product. If your wine is dry and you have no intention of backsweetening it, skip the sorbate, as it is purported to give wine a funky taste. Personally, I don't use any of the clearing agents any longer, preferring to allow time and nature to clear my wine, but having used them in the past, have not ever noticed any funky taste as a result of clearing agents. Basically, you can skip all of that stuff, but wouldn't recommend skipping potassium meta., as its antimicrobial and anti-oxidizing properties are pretty dang important............

 

[bstnh1]

One thing that I noticed and hasn't been mentioned yet is that you added potassium sorbate to a dry wine. While the directions do say to add it, and it's good that you followed the direction on your first attempt, this could also be a source of your off flavor. You may be sensitive to the off flavors the potassium sorbate imparts.

My first 2 kits were a Cab and a Merlot, and I added potassium sorbate to them. While they are drinkable, they have a pretty prominent flavor that I describe as "a little sour punch to the nose, and oddly artificial sweet taste." It is a little off-putting for a dry red, and I was worried that I didn't like any dry red kit wines. I've done about 5 more dry red kits since then, including a repeat of the first Cab, and none have had the same off flavor since I started skipping the sorbate.

The sorbate taste/smell is highly subjective. I've made somewhere around 50 kits with added sorbate and never notice any odd taste or smell. But I know some people pick it up right away.

 

[kyle5434]

I switched from Sodium Metabisulfate to Potassium Metabisulfate and used half as much as directed, if I remember correctly.

OK, so that sentence stuck out for me.

Were/are you following the kit instructions? I've never seen a kit that included sodium metabisulfite, or called for its use in the instructions.

If you do a 3rd attempt:

1) Get a big bag of potassium metabusilfite or a bottle of Star San at your local homebrew shop or online, and be sure to mix/use according to instructions for sanitation of all equipment and containers that the wine will touch.
2) If your tap water tastes good, it should be fine for the wine. If it doesn't taste good, use bottled/filtered water.
3) With the exception of the sorbate, which you don't need if you practice good sanitation and are not planning to back-sweeten the wine, follow the kit instructions to the letter, using only the ingredients that are shipped with the kit.

That should get you to where you need to be to start aging the wine. An En Primeur or Eclipse red kit may not start coming around to your taste expectations for 8-12 months - possibly longer.

 

[Jasienic]

Here's a pic of the carboy.
I've extracted out a glass or so for testing so it was slightly higher but this is close.

Thx for the feedback so far!

...and my iPhone of course rotated the pic...sorry.

View attachment 34346

Wicks, I can be wrong, but there is one more possible explanation. If temperature in your cellar is not stable, your carboy can sack fresh air through the airlock inside when temperature is lower, then discharge some gas, when temperature is higher. If it happens daily, it would be like wine was open completely. For my wines, when they are 4 weeks old, I use full stopper on my carboys. There is always some vacuum when I open a carboy. I think it indicates that everything with my wine is ok.

 

[Wicks]

OK, so that sentence stuck out for me.

Were/are you following the kit instructions? I've never seen a kit that included sodium metabisulfite, or called for its use in the instructions.

If you do a 3rd attempt:

1) Get a big bag of potassium metabusilfite or a bottle of Star San at your local homebrew shop or online, and be sure to mix/use according to instructions for sanitation of all equipment and containers that the wine will touch.
2) If your tap water tastes good, it should be fine for the wine. If it doesn't taste good, use bottled/filtered water.
3) With the exception of the sorbate, which you don't need if you practice good sanitation and are not planning to back-sweeten the wine, follow the kit instructions to the letter, using only the ingredients that are shipped with the kit.

That should get you to where you need to be to start aging the wine. An En Primeur or Eclipse red kit may not start coming around to your taste expectations for 8-12 months - possibly longer.

I did follow the instructions. In looking at them, it shows the kit includes a packet of sulfite (doesn't say which). I followed the instructions exactly on my first kit and the chemical taste was terrible. On this 2nd kit, I tried 1/4 teaspoon of potassium metabisulfite that I purchased separately, on the clearing and stabilizing step.
Tap water is fine. I started the kit with spring water to be sure, but did add a little tap water during the process.
Sounds like the sorbate isn't needed so I'll ditch that on the next batch but based on the reported descriptions, I don't think the sorbate is to blame.

Wicks, I can be wrong, but there is one more possible explanation. If temperature in your cellar is not stable, your carboy can sack fresh air through the airlock inside when temperature is lower, then discharge some gas, when temperature is higher. If it happens daily, it would be like wine was open completely. For my wines, when they are 4 weeks old, I use full stopper on my carboys. There is always some vacuum when I open a carboy. I think it indicates that everything with my wine is ok.

My basement is fairly cool year round but the outside temperature does fluctuate quite a bit in Colorado.
I can take a closer look at that but agree, yeah I should probably use a full stopper on the carboys after fermentation.