Clearing/Fining Question

[Resonant11]

Hello all, I made my first batch from grapes in the Fall. I recently racked it for the first time since racking off the gross lees in Oct/Nov. Shortly afterward a noticeable amount of sediment dropped out. It didn't feel like I brought much of the sediment through the racking cane, so I'm wondering if dropping sediment is still normal for this age of wine (3-4 months).

I've never used fining agents, so I'm wondering if I should consider that. Is it possible to add something and gently stir the full carboy to accelerate the clearing process? I'm toying with the idea of entering the wine in a nouveaux wine contest in a club that I just joined, but I want to make sure it's clear. The contest is in May.

In a related question, does anyone have tips on how to test for clarity in a full carboy of red wine? I'm wondering if shining a light through would be useful. My wife and I drank about a bottle's worth that didn't fit into the carboy when I racked it. It had a very deep purple color, but didn't seem hazy or cloudy. I probably should have inspected it more thoroughly before drinking it!

Thanks!

 

[Ohio Bob]

Sediment is normal if you’ve not used any fining agents so far. May is really an optimistic date, your wine will still be very young. But if you have your heart set on it you probably will need fining agents. The sooner the better too.

Google fining agents for wine and you will find the typical options: bentonite, sparkaloid, K&C, others. I’m sure the Morewine.com site has a page on fining agents too. As well as others.

As a side note: I don’t typically use any since I let time do it’s thing. However I am fermenting some peach to blend into my Riesling. The Riesling is getting clear but the peach has a haze. I treated it with bentonite and what was a very thin layer of sediment before treatment, turned into a 2” thick layer of fluffy sediment after an hour. A few days later and it’s compacted to about 1/2”. So when the literature says “light and fluffy sediment” they weren’t kidding. Bentonite is for positive charged particles, I anticipate I will also treat with Sparkaloid, which drops negative charged particles.

 

[BigDaveK]

Degassing may help speed things up if there's a lot of CO2. Natural degassing will take longer with the cooler winter temperature.

Like @Ohio Bob I don't use fining agents - check liquid level in the airlocks every week or so and that's it.

I use a flashlight. I think it gives a very general idea how things are progressing. It's nice to see the change over time but I don't use it to make decisions.

 

[winemaker81]

Generally speaking, wines are often clear after 3 months of bulk aging. However, there is no guarantee, and I've had wines dropping a bit of sediment after 9 months. Excess CO2 will hold sediment in suspension -- it's likely racking expelled CO2, so sediment dropped. That is totally normal.

A common fining agent is actually two -- kieselsol and chitosan, which is included in kits. These can be purchased separately, but are also marketed as DualFine. I suggest stirring the wine for a minute (degas), then add the kieselsol and stir for another minute. Then add the chitosan and stir again for 1 minute. It's common for sediment to start dropping within hours, although it make take a day or two. Give the wine 2 to 3 weeks, then rack off the sediment.

Note regarding K&C -- there are numerous timings published for their usage, everything from add them together, to add them a few minutes apart, to adding a day apart. The schedule I listed works fine.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* club contest is actually a fairly narrow time window, I have done best of show at March contest and a month later said “OH SH#*%” when yeast settle out in a case of bottles a month later.
* another trick is a tall container seems to stratify better than a normal carboy. Your trick here is take your case of “best of show” then siphon the top half of two bottles into a clean bottle with recorking for entering in state fair in June
* for March contests today I will run a carboy of wine through a BonVino minijet #3 pad, I don’t bother filtering if it isn’t a contest wine

 

[cmason1957]

Along those same lines one of the members of the wine club I belong to does very well in many different wine competitions by following this procedure.

He said that he followed direction exactly, including bottling time-lines. I might almost believe him, since he was a retired country veterinarian and had a tendency to be a rule follower.

When bottling, put the racking cane about 1/3 of the way into the carboy, bottle about 10 bottles, those will be your competition wines. Next lower the racking cane down to about 2/3 of the way into the carboy, bottle those 10 bottles, they become the ones you give away. Next lower to the bottom and finish bottling, those become the ones you keep and drink yourself.

 

[meadmaker1]

You already have solid advice posted. I would like to add that sediment falls out on its own time line. More important that finning agents is to not bottle anything if sediment is on the bottom of your car boy.
When you hold a bottle for your Friends to see, if there is mud on the bottom that’s all they will remember.
Regardless of taste it will look home made.

 

[winemaker81]

@meadmaker1, I agree with your intent, but not the actual statement. I bulk age a wine for 6 to 12 months, and there is well-compacted fine lees on the bottle of the carboy. I rack off the lees and bottle, and have clear wine with no sediment in the bottle.

Note that if a carboy has sediment, my final racking is not all the way to the bottom. I'll leave a bottle or 2 behind, and bottle the top 25 or 28 bottles. Then I rack the final bit, and if the last bottle or 2 are a bit muddy, I drink those first.

I was taught to rack every 3 months, and knew at least one guy who racked his wines monthly. I've learned that is a waste of time and wine, and unnecessarily exposes the wine to air. Since learning more about gross lees, fine lees, and sur lie, I've cut out a number of rackings as unnecessary.

When using K&C, the cycle is roughly 2 weeks for fermentation, followed by 2 weeks of clearing. Then the wine goes into bulk, and I may get a very thin layer of fine lees, which I ignore until the final racking before bottling.

 

[Resonant11]

Thanks everyone for the input. I think I'm going to use some fining agents on the whole batch, then bottle half and rack the rest to a smaller carboy. I've been curious as to the difference of bulk and bottle aging, so this will give me a way to do a bit of test along those lines, as well as having a bottle to submit in May if I want.

@cmason1957 I love the idea of separating bottles like that, and I'm definitely going to give it a shot if I get sucked into the competition world.

 

[winemanden]

I was told years ago.that the best wine is near the top of the carboy. I assume it's the unseen tannins and colourising polymers gradually sinking down to form a layer in seemingly clear wine.

 

[meadmaker1]

@meadmaker1, I agree with your intent, but not the actual statement. I bulk age a wine for 6 to 12 months, and there is well-compacted fine lees on the bottle of the carboy. I rack off the lees and bottle, and have clear wine with no sediment in the bottle.

Note that if a carboy has sediment, my final racking is not all the way to the bottom. I'll leave a bottle or 2 behind, and bottle the top 25 or 28 bottles. Then I rack the final bit, and if the last bottle or 2 are a bit muddy, I drink those first.

I was taught to rack every 3 months, and knew at least one guy who racked his wines monthly. I've learned that is a waste of time and wine, and unnecessarily exposes the wine to air. Since learning more about gross lees, fine lees, and sur lie, I've cut out a number of rackings as unnecessary.

When using K&C, the cycle is roughly 2 weeks for fermentation, followed by 2 weeks of clearing. Then the wine goes into bulk, and I may get a very thin layer of fine lees, which I ignore until the final racking

@meadmaker1, I agree with your intent, but not the actual statement. I bulk age a wine for 6 to 12 months, and there is well-compacted fine lees on the bottle of the carboy. I rack off the lees and bottle, and have clear wine with no sediment in the bottle.

Note that if a carboy has sediment, my final racking is not all the way to the bottom. I'll leave a bottle or 2 behind, and bottle the top 25 or 28 bottles. Then I rack the final bit, and if the last bottle or 2 are a bit muddy, I drink those first.

I was taught to rack every 3 months, and knew at least one guy who racked his wines monthly. I've learned that is a waste of time and wine, and unnecessarily exposes the wine to air. Since learning more about gross lees, fine lees, and sur lie, I've cut out a number of rackings as unnecessary.

When using K&C, the cycle is roughly 2 weeks for fermentation, followed by 2 weeks of clearing. Then the wine goes into bulk, and I may get a very thin layer of fine lees, which I ignore until the final racking before bottling.

fair enough. Buy your experience is how you know this. Gravity is a good finning agent most of the time given time and be careful to not bottle too soon.