Cloudy wine before backsweetening

[Mariclaire Primeau]

Hi, I’ve tried to search this topic without coming up with a straight forward answer to what I should do. My problem is that my Apple wine is ready to bottle, it’s done fermenting according to the gravity reading, I was planning to back sweeten it. Thing is it’s a bit cloudy, my previous batches were much clearer, it’s been racked twice and is not sitting on sedement, and pectin enzyme was added in the start of the process. I read somewhere that cloudiness might affect the ability of the Campden and potassium sorbate to work properly, and the fermentation could restart if I backsweeten it. I’m not understand why it’s cloudy or if I should wait for it to clarify, re-rack it or add more pectin enzyme, or something else.

 

[winemaker81]

Hit the wine with a double-dose of pectic enzyme. It's less effective post-fermentation, so it needs a higher dose.

Excess pectin should not affect the stabilizing process. However, if the wine is not clear at bottling time, you should expect precipitation in the bottle, which is unsightly.

Hit it with more pectic enzyme, then wait a month. If it's not clearing, I'd use bentonite.

 

[cmason1957]

If you do not it with more pectic enzyme, which is what I would do, double or triple the dosage. Pectic enzyme is reported not to work nearly as well in the presence of alcohol. And you may need to do this, wait a month or so, do it again.

 

[BigDaveK]

Hazy wine can be caused by pectin, starch, and protein. With apple pectin comes to mind first. But then apples also have starch, which they lose as they ripen.

I had two wines that absolutely refused to clear. I don't mean hazy - they were darn opaque after a year! Out of curiosity I tried CJJ Berry's banana water: ripen 1 lb of bananas till the skin is black, peel, boil in a pint of water for a bit, let cool, strain the liquid, add 100 ml / gallon. It's not fast, takes about a week, but the darn thing works! It was a fun experiment.

 

[Mariclaire Primeau]

Hazy wine can be caused by pectin, starch, and protein. With apple pectin comes to mind first. But then apples also have starch, which they lose as they ripen.

I had two wines that absolutely refused to clear. I don't mean hazy - they were darn opaque after a year! Out of curiosity I tried CJJ Berry's banana water: ripen 1 lb of bananas till the skin is black, peel, boil in a pint of water for a bit, let cool, strain the liquid, add 100 ml / gallon. It's not fast, takes about a week, but the darn thing works! It was a fun experiment.

That’s interesting I’ve never heard of using bananas like that. Thanks for the reply

 

[Mariclaire Primeau]

If you do not it with more pectic enzyme, which is what I would do, double or triple the dosage. Pectic enzyme is reported not to work nearly as well in the presence of alcohol. And you may need to do this, wait a month or so, do it again.

Thanks I will try adding more pectic enzyme

 

[Mariclaire Primeau]

Hit the wine with a double-dose of pectic enzyme. It's less effective post-fermentation, so it needs a higher dose.

Excess pectin should not affect the stabilizing process. However, if the wine is not clear at bottling time, you should expect precipitation in the bottle, which is unsightly.

Hit it with more pectic enzyme, then wait a month. If it's not clearing, I'd use bentonite.

Thanks I will give it a double dose of pectic enzyme and see what happens.

 

[Hazelemere]

Hi, I’ve tried to search this topic without coming up with a straight forward answer to what I should do. My problem is that my Apple wine is ready to bottle, it’s done fermenting according to the gravity reading, I was planning to back sweeten it. Thing is it’s a bit cloudy, my previous batches were much clearer, it’s been racked twice and is not sitting on sedement, and pectin enzyme was added in the start of the process. I read somewhere that cloudiness might affect the ability of the Campden and potassium sorbate to work properly, and the fermentation could restart if I backsweeten it. I’m not understand why it’s cloudy or if I should wait for it to clarify, re-rack it or add more pectin enzyme, or something else.

filter it 1) medium filter 2) fine filter. Use both filters. Make sure to pump acid blend in water though your filters so you don't get a filter taste in your wines.

 

[winemaker81]

filter it 1) medium filter 2) fine filter. Use both filters. Make sure to pump acid blend in water though your filters so you don't get a filter taste in your wines.

Filtering polishes a wine. Filtering a cloudy wine just plugs the filter.

 

[Raptor99]

How long ago did you start this batch? I usually age hard cider or apple wine for at least 3-4 months before I expect it to be clear and ready to bottle. If it has been less time than that, I suggest that Patience is the most important ingredient to use.

It's not ready to bottle until it is clear. Then it is the time to stabilize and back sweeten.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* a test for pectin; one volume of cider with two or three times toe volume of denatured alcohol. Pectin will form a clot / low pectin forms strings.
* cider sickness; is the pH over 3.8? did you have an incomplete fermentation? (This is a wild lactic bacteria fermentation. ). Solution is to fine it to remove haze.
* I will guess that you don’t have tannic apples so this is mainly for reference. (Bitter sharps). Did you have a temp drop? Tannins can create a haze. Proteins (gelatin) pulls tannins out.

Apple is fun. This apple has had extra pectase, , then it has had extra acid to drop the pH from 3.6 to 3.3

 

[winemanden]

That’s interesting I’ve never heard of using bananas like that. Thanks for the reply

I always add banana water to the must, been doing it for years. It helps to clear and adds a bit of body.

 

[Mariclaire Primeau]

* a test for pectin; one volume of cider with two or three times toe volume of denatured alcohol. Pectin will form a clot / low pectin forms strings.
* cider sickness; is the pH over 3.8? did you have an incomplete fermentation? (This is a wild lactic bacteria fermentation. ). Solution is to fine it to remove haze.
* I will guess that you don’t have tannic apples so this is mainly for reference. (Bitter sharps). Did you have a temp drop? Tannins can create a haze. Proteins (gelatin) pulls tannins out.

Apple is fun. This apple has had extra pectase, , then it has had extra acid to drop the pH from 3.6 to 3.3
View attachment 116864

 

[Mariclaire Primeau]

* a test for pectin; one volume of cider with two or three times toe volume of denatured alcohol. Pectin will form a clot / low pectin forms strings.
* cider sickness; is the pH over 3.8? did you have an incomplete fermentation? (This is a wild lactic bacteria fermentation. ). Solution is to fine it to remove haze.
* I will guess that you don’t have tannic apples so this is mainly for reference. (Bitter sharps). Did you have a temp drop? Tannins can create a haze. Proteins (gelatin) pulls tannins out.

Apple is fun. This apple has had extra pectase, , then it has had extra acid to drop the pH from 3.6 to 3.3
View attachment 116864

No my apples weren’t very tannic I don’t think, mostly Macintoshes. I tested my pH when I started and it was 3.5

 

[Mariclaire Primeau]

How long ago did you start this batch? I usually age hard cider or apple wine for at least 3-4 months before I expect it to be clear and ready to bottle. If it has been less time than that, I suggest that Patience is the most important ingredient to use.

It's not ready to bottle until it is clear. Then it is the time to stabilize and back sweeten.

Maybe that’s my problem. I just kind of figured once the sugar was gone it was time to bottle. It’s been about 2 months. Maybe I should just wait before adding anything or trying to make it clearer

 

[winemaker81]

Maybe that’s my problem. I just kind of figured once the sugar was gone it was time to bottle. It’s been about 2 months. Maybe I should just wait before adding anything or trying to make it clearer

Winemaking is a procrastinator's hobby. There are very few things in winemaking that require immediate action. The hard part is that most things require patience.

I rarely bottle wines before 4 months. Typically lighter wines are bottled at 5 to 7 months, and heavy reds at 12+ months.

 

[dianemaycotte]

filter it 1) medium filter 2) fine filter. Use both filters. Make sure to pump acid blend in water though your filters so you don't get a filter taste in your wines.

Can you be more specific about the acid blend you are suggesting to pump through your filters? Thanks!

 

[Hazelemere]

Can you be more specific about the acid blend you are suggesting to pump through your filters? Thanks!

anything works tartaric, malic, citric or acid blend

 

[BPL]

I have read through the replies up to this point. Several things to keep in mind going forward. a) "Cloudy" wine can be caused by fine particulates or something of a chemical nature, like pectin. Filters will remove particulates, but do noting for chemicals. b) Nothing is mentioned about the final gravity. A higher gravity (for example 1.01 to 1.00), will be harder to clear than a lower one, (for example .995 or lower). The reason has to do with the physics of the weight of the particles, if particulates are the problem. Back sweetening will raise the gravity and tougher to clear. c) Pectic enzyme is not as efficient in the presence of alcohol, nor at a lower temperature, say under 70*F. d) If pectin is causing the haze, the longer chain molecules are affecting the light passing through the wine. Pectic enzyme will break down the longer chains of the proteins into smaller ones reducing the haze. e) Pectin enzyme breaks down proteins, Bentonite absorbs and removes proteins, including pectic enzyme, which is a protein. Bentonite also helps with particulates. f) Cold stabilizing can help remove both particulates and proteins.

Knowing the facts helps make an informed decision. Best of luck.

 

[winemaker81]

I have read through the replies up to this point. Several things to keep in mind going forward. a) "Cloudy" wine can be caused by fine particulates or something of a chemical nature, like pectin. Filters will remove particulates, but do noting for chemicals. b) Nothing is mentioned about the final gravity. A higher gravity (for example 1.01 to 1.00), will be harder to clear than a lower one, (for example .995 or lower). The reason has to do with the physics of the weight of the particles, if particulates are the problem. Back sweetening will raise the gravity and tougher to clear. c) Pectic enzyme is not as efficient in the presence of alcohol, nor at a lower temperature, say under 70*F. d) If pectin is causing the haze, the longer chain molecules are affecting the light passing through the wine. Pectic enzyme will break down the longer chains of the proteins into smaller ones reducing the haze. e) Pectin enzyme breaks down proteins, Bentonite absorbs and removes proteins, including pectic enzyme, which is a protein. Bentonite also helps with particulates. f) Cold stabilizing can help remove both particulates and proteins.

Excellent summary!