Co-innoculating vs. sequential

[Mac60]

For those who have had several successful Co MLF seasons under them can you give me any pointers. I have successfully always done sequential. But Co-inoculating seems to make sense.
I have 4 batches going to happen this coming weekend. I'm doing split batches D80/D254
2 50Wine/70Must OVZ 1 D80 batch and 1 D254 Batch I have CH16 for each
Also 2 30Gallons wine/43 Gallons Must batches of Lanza Sangiovese Bruello/Cab also CH16
Question, Do I keep my Yeast/Goferm and FermK scheduale the same?
Yeast/Goferm, than my Ferm-k (1) start of cap and Ferm K (2) with brix 8-10 Brix drop.
Than Add MLB CH16? when 24Hours or 48 hours after pitching yeast.
Depending on how fast the fermentation, I may be adding FermK 2 before the CH16 MLB, is that OK?
Last year I think it was 16 hours after FermK 1 that I got 8 Brix to drop and added my Fermk2
Thanks in advance .
Mike

 

[Johnd]

For those who have had several successful Co MLF seasons under them can you give me any pointers. I have successfully always done sequential. But Co-inoculating seems to make sense.
I have 4 batches going to happen this coming weekend. I'm also doing split batches D80/D254
2 50Wine/70Must OVZ 1 D80 batch and 1 D254 Batch I have CH16 for each
Also 2 30Gallons wine/43 Gallons Must batches of Lanza Sangiovese Bruello/Cab also CH16
Question, Do I keep my Yeast/Goferm and FermK scheduale the same?
Yeast/Goferm, than my Ferm-k (1) start of cap and Ferm K (2) with brix 8-10 Brix drop.
Than Add MLB CH16? when 24Hours or 48 hours after pitching yeast.
Depending on how fast the fermentation, I may be adding FermK 2 before the CH16 MLB, is that OK?
Last year I think it was 16 hours after FermK 1 that I got 8 Brix to drop and added my Fermk2
Thanks in advance .
Mike

I've been doing coinoculation for years, with great success. My nutrient application for yeast remains exactly the same, no changes at all.

As far as timing, I like to try to get my MLB onboard within the first 24 hours, usually just about the time you start to see some activity from the yeast.

I've always rehydrated my MLB in distilled water, and used Acti-ML for the rehydration process. It's easy to split the resulting MLB slurry between multiple containers.

I add my first 1/2 dose of MLB nutrients (Opti-Malo) at the same time that the MLB is introduced to the must. The second 1/2 dose is added when I rack off of the gross lees, 2 - 3 days after pressing.

MLF normally completes a couple of weeks or so after AF, then wait another two weeks before adding sulfite, just for good measures....... Good luck!!!

 

[Bubba1]

I have no problem with co-inoculation and use basically the same method as john Im in the middle of a batch right now. Good Luck.........Mike

 

[Mac60]

I've been doing coinoculation for years, with great success. My nutrient application for yeast remains exactly the same, no changes at all.

As far as timing, I like to try to get my MLB onboard within the first 24 hours, usually just about the time you start to see some activity from the yeast.

I've always rehydrated my MLB in distilled water, and used Acti-ML for the rehydration process. It's easy to split the resulting MLB slurry between multiple containers.

I add my first 1/2 dose of MLB nutrients (Opti-Malo) at the same time that the MLB is introduced to the must. The second 1/2 dose is added when I rack off of the gross lees, 2 - 3 days after pressing.

MLF normally completes a couple of weeks or so after AF, then wait another two weeks before adding sulfite, just for good measures....... Good luck!!!

Thanks, With CH16 they specifically say not to hydrate just add to wine? I'm assuming you using VP41, would you still hydrate CH16, this has been my go to for years and I never hydrated it.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks, With CH16 they specifically say not to hydrate just add to wine? I'm assuming you using VP41, would you still hydrate CH16, this has been my go to for years and I never hydrated it.

Personally, having no experience with CH16, I’d follow directions, if you’ve never rehydrated it, don’t mess with success!! Yes, I use VP41, but lots of folks use CH16 and love it as well.

 

[CDrew]

I like the CH16 and have used 2017, 2018, and will use tomorrow. No rehydration is called for. You'll be happy with it.

Short form:
"Directions for use
Viniflora® freeze-dried cultures are adapted for direct inoculation into wine. No rehydration or reactivation is required"


Long form:
https://www.gusmerwine.com/wp-conte...r-Hansen-PI_Viniflora_CH16_666285_03.2014.pdf

 

[cmason1957]

I have used both VP41 and Ch16, and also Enoform Alpha and Beta. Never rehydrate any of them, just added some MLB nutrition to all of them. Add my Sister-in-law often says, it's all good.

 

[Stressbaby]

This year I co-inoculated Foch and Frontenac without Acti-ML (forgot to order) but with usual nutrition. I split one pack across two batches, left the open pack in the fridge for a week before using the second half. Did chromatography over the weekend, both are completely done <30 days from harvest.

 

[Johnd]

This year I co-inoculated Foch and Frontenac without Acti-ML (forgot to order) but with usual nutrition. I split one pack across two batches, left the open pack in the fridge for a week before using the second half. Did chromatography over the weekend, both are completely done <30 days from harvest.

Did you do that with VP41?

 

[Donz]

Here is a good read for you Mike.

I have always done co-inoculation with VP41 and kept the same yeast/nutrient schedule. Always add the MLB exactly 24 hours after yeast.

 

[Mac60]

Thanks Everyone you are all awesome, I got the info I need that article was perfect, I'm planning on co-inoculating with CH-16 I did get some Opti-Malo for nutrition. looks like 24 hours is the ticket for MLB.
I'll post pic of the production. Just like last year we will hand crush 2300lbs of grapes. its a great shoulder and arm workout..

 

[Stressbaby]

Did you do that with VP41?

Yes

 

[BI81]

I have used both VP41 and Ch16, and also Enoform Alpha and Beta. Never rehydrate any of them, just added some MLB nutrition to all of them. Add my Sister-in-law often says, it's all good.

@cmason1957 have you had any issues co-inoculating with Enoferm Alpha while using Fermaid K? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Enoferm has issues with DAP, but can't seem to recall where I read this so it could be my imagination?!?

 

[Mac60]

We got our delivery from Gino Pinto's Today, we're going to make some wine this weekend

 

[stickman]

Looks like you're making just a little bit of wine....

 

[cmason1957]

@cmason1957 have you had any issues co-inoculating with Enoferm Alpha while using Fermaid K? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Enoferm has issues with DAP, but can't seem to recall where I read this so it could be my imagination?!?

Sorry, I was away from the internet for a couple of days and just saw this. I don't co-inoculate. I am old school on that and wait until after I rack off the gross lees. It has always worked for me, so I'm not planning on changing any time soon. Only downside I can see is no SO2 for the or for months. That isn't really a downside.

 

[pgentile]

I have co-inoculated with both vp41 and ch16 the past couple of years. I re-hydrate with tap water and do typical yeast nutrient additions. 24-72 hours after yeast. No issues. I also use the skins for subsequent juice bucket batches and don't add new yeast or MLB. Good luck with all those grapes.

 

[Mac60]

Breaking tradition this year, I have been wanting to do this for the past 2 seasons, just didn't have the nerve to do it until this year. Little changes make me nervous, but you guys definatly pushed me over the edge this year. There is no turning back, just need to see the end result in a few weeks with the ML Test. All looking and smelling good on Day 3 Co-inoculated all with CH-16 24 hours after pinching yeast. We're looking at 100 Gallons of OV Zin and 60 Gallons of Lanza Sangiovese Brunello/Cabernet Sav

Old Vine Zins: 24 Brix PH 3.80 took it down to 3.66, TA was .72 the adjustment took it to .80, SG-1.100
Lanza Sangiovese Brunello/Cab Sav: Brix-24, PH 3.64 TA.75 Made no adjustments
View attachment 56510

 

[Donz]

Nice looking pics! Was your Zin a straight 100% Zin?

 

[Mac60]

Straight Zin! No fun in that...
We have a special Cosa Nostra reciept. 75% OV Zin, 15% Barbera, 7.50% Alicante, 2.50% Muscat. Everyone loves this blend and does not want to change it after 6 years I did reduce the Muscat the last 2 years it was 5% and for me was too sweet. Now its perfect for an everyday any meal wine, you could also chill it in the fridge and have it in a small orange juice glass for breakfast....
Donz, Thanks again for the info
Mike