Cold stabilization - no clearing agents

[crushday]

This morning I decided to cold stabilize five 6 gallon batches of wine of various varieties - all started the same day on November 18th, 2018 in conical fermentors from FastFerment. All had skins and I pressed each skin bag with my fruit press back into the fermentor. I introduced K-meta (5gm) to each but did not use any clearing agents. This time of year my garage stays around 40 degrees. I live in the Pacific Northwest.

A couple of questions:

1. At this temperature, how long will it take to de-gas?
2. How long to "clear"? I want to move to a carboy but I'm experimenting by not using the clearing agents.

 

[cmason1957]

Time is going to be your friend with both of those. I would imagine you are looking at a couple of months or more for both. I generally don't add the clearing agents, either, but I usually let them agree at least a year before I think they might be ready to see a bottle for another year or so.

 

[pillswoj]

At that temperature it will Never degass without some sort of mechanical intervention, ie vacuum pump etc. Degassing is easiest if the wine in around 70 F.

 

[Boatboy24]

Cold stabilization can alter the wine's chemistry. Is there a reason you want to do this? You can clear without agents simply using time.

 

[crushday]

Cold stabilization can alter the wine's chemistry. Is there a reason you want to do this? You can clear without agents simply using time.

Jim, you’ve asked a great question and one I cannot easily answer. Fact is, I’m trying to speed the clearing process so I can transfer to carboys. Unlike the process I understand others to employ, by the time my wine gets to a carboy I don’t rack again. I do primary and secondary (8-9 weeks) all in one vessel and transfer to carboys for long term aging for one year. Second year is spent in a barrel then bottled.

Now I’m nervous. I’m on a business trip until Friday night, late. I wouldn’t be able to store the units agin in my heated fermenting space until Saturday this coming weekend. Other than dropped yeast cells and solids, what other changes?

 

[Boatboy24]

I don't think you have anything to worry about between now and Friday. But, cold stabilization can increase or decrease the acidity of a wine, depending on where the pH is when it starts. The chemistry is rather complicated, and quite honestly, I'm not sure I have 100% understanding. But kits are generally balanced for acid already. And in the 1 or 2 situations where I've cold stabilized kits, I'm not sure I would do it again.

 

[Ajmassa]

I’ve done CS without adding any antacid chems a few times. CS went for a few weeks. It did drop out good amount of acid tartrates (wine diamonds) and raised the PH lowered TA a click. But somehow after time passed it actually creeped back up almost to where it was before the CS.
No idea if this info helps at all

 

[cmason1957]

I don't think you have anything to worry about between now and Friday. But, cold stabilization can increase or decrease the acidity of a wine, depending on where the pH is when it starts. The chemistry is rather complicated, and quite honestly, I'm not sure I have 100% understanding. But kits are generally balanced for acid already. And in the 1 or 2 situations where I've cold stabilized kits, I'm not sure I would do it again.

I'm with you, I have cold stabilized a few kids as well. Not sure I would do it again. I occasionally have a small amount of wine diamonds drop out, but never enough to really worry about and I don't think it helps the taste any.

 

[crushday]

By way of update - got home last night and this morning moved all batches out of CS and back into my fermenting room. I'll move everything to carboys at the end of January and start new batches. I just got notified that my first RJS 2019 RQ kit - Joaquin Murrieta (Chilean Cabernet, Merlot, Syrah) - is on its way.

 

[Brian55]

I'm with you, I have cold stabilized a few kids as well. Not sure I would do it again. I occasionally have a small amount of wine diamonds drop out, but never enough to really worry about and I don't think it helps the taste any.

I haven't tried cold stabilizing any "kids", but I have a couple that I might try it out on.

 

[G259]

Lol! I was waiting for that one!

 

[cmason1957]

I haven't tried cold stabilizing any "kids", but I have a couple that I might try it out on.

You really ought to. I usually do it when they get really, really mouthie. It really helps their attitudes after about a day or three in that fridge. I do give them a small amount of food and a pot to piss in.

 

[tradowsk]

Apologies for slightly hijacking this thread, but what's the consensus on "cold stabilization" vs "cold crashing"?

I treat them separately, with CS being a several week process to remove acid and CC being a few days to speed clearing. But I've also seen them used somewhat interchangeably on a few threads here.

Am I correct?

 

[cmason1957]

Apologies for slightly hijacking this thread, but what's the consensus on "cold stabilization" vs "cold crashing"?

I treat them separately, with CS being a several week process to remove acid and CC being a few days to speed clearing. But I've also seen them used somewhat interchangeably on a few threads here.

Am I correct?

The wine doesn't know the difference, it got cold, stuff fell out. At least that is my feeling about it. I just recently spent quite a bit of time studying cold stabilization, I belive I read that 90% of the tartrates that are going to fall out, fall out during the first week of being in the cold.

 

[joeswine]

I think whites to invest in cold stabilization that's just my thoughts.

 

[crushday]

Apologies for slightly hijacking this thread, but what's the consensus on "cold stabilization" vs "cold crashing"?

I treat them separately, with CS being a several week process to remove acid and CC being a few days to speed clearing. But I've also seen them used somewhat interchangeably on a few threads here.

Am I correct?

Thanks for "hijacking"! My intention in exposing the wine to my cold garage was to have the wine clear without the use of fining agents (Kieselsol/Chitosan) before I move long term storage in carboys and ultimately barrels before bottling. If this is called a cold crash, and if it works, it'll do it. What say you?

 

[Ajmassa]

Thanks for "hijacking"! My intention in exposing the wine to my cold garage was to have the wine clear without the use of fining agents (Kieselsol/Chitosan) before I move long term storage in carboys and ultimately barrels before bottling. If this is called a cold crash, and if it works, it'll do it. What say you?

I never really viewed a “cold soak” as an alternative to clearing. If it does clear some I guess it’s an extra bonus. But really look at it as a way to:
- reduce the acid content by dropping out tartrates (w/ or w/o chems)
-and taking away any potential from diamonds forming in the bottle as it ages

So I suppose “fining” could be a term to use. But with proper aging and racking the wines gonna clear up on its own regardless of any cold soak—-at least in my experiences.

 

[montanarick]

This is sorta like an apples and oranges thing - where it might get easy to get terminology mixed up. "Cold Soak" is a chilled maceration before start of primary fermentation where temps are lowered to discourage yeast (primarily wild yeast) from getting started. "Cold Stabilization" is carried out after fermentation to precipitate calcium tartrate crystals. This not only gets rid of wine diamonds but also helps reduce TA. Adding potassium bitartrate (regular old grocery store bought cream of tartar) helps seed the process by acting as a nuclei for the tartrate crystals to grow onto and precipitate faster. I used cream of tartar this past fall for cold stabilization in my garage, on all my wines, when temps got down into the lower 40's and within a week all the tartrate crystals had settled out. Hope this helps.

 

[jsbeckton]

I have been doing it only because I have always done it with beer for speeding clarification but have noticed that it’s raising my kits from about 3.4 to 3.5/6. I might try skipping it for the next few batches since I don’t bottle for at least a year anyways.

 

[ceeaton]

I've always tried to do it when I want a newly fermented beer to clear quicker. The yeast will give up the goat and drop out quicker at a lower temperature (unless it's a cold hardy lager yeast). As far as wine making goes, my basement will go as low as the mid 50's in winter and I've noticed that some of my bottled wines that are aging will produce quite a few diamonds. Haven't noticed a taste issue, but then again it happens to all of the aging bottles so I have nothing to compare it to. I guess ignorance is bliss in this case since I haven't had an undrinkable wine from a kit yet.