Common Terms

[Scooter68]

sg1strgt - Frozen Fruit vs Fresh Fruit - really no difference other than the fact that frozen fruit MAY break down faster. The steps are the same other than the additional "Thawing" step. I would suggest a lot of reading on sites like this, maybe a book or two and then remember -wine making is as much an Art as a Science.

There are many ways to make a great wine but there are some steps that cannot be ignored. Sanitization of equipment if the first that comes to mind. Many have asked the "Why" question with regards to additives - best answer is to read about what it does and then re-read those articles and book(s).

Skipping common steps or additives is done at some risk, question is how much risk do you want take. Historically we don't have a perfect record of what happened to Guido, Franz or whoever when they tried some revolutionary new step centuries ago because deaths and illness due to food poisoning were common. So sticking to the tried and true for modern day wine makers is the best route until you have some experience with the processes. Shoot, we all make enough mistakes without trying 'new' methods to keep our forum buzzing. Wine that won't ferment, unusual smells, and the ever popular bottle bombs. (The latter though rare, will get your attention when you lose half a dozen bottles of wine.) My experience with bottle bombs dates back to my dad making root beer (1950s) and a KABOOM from the garage that took out pretty much the entire batch - and that to a 9 year old was a real tragedy!

 

[CUZN_J]

OK a little help here, I have made about 6 batches of wine, they are all pretty good tasting, except there is a little bite or bitterness, can anyone tell me how to get rid of it, I don't know if I am even describing this correct, it is just a little bitter tang or something, other than that I think it is great, I am not a wine lover, or have not been until now.

 

[Ajmassa]

OK a little help here, I have made about 6 batches of wine, they are all pretty good tasting, except there is a little bite or bitterness, can anyone tell me how to get rid of it, I don't know if I am even describing this correct, it is just a little bitter tang or something, other than that I think it is great, I am not a wine lover, or have not been until now.

Odd thread choice for this lol. Is it wine from grapes? Sounds like too much acid. Ph and TA tests would tell u a lot.
You know what you could do easily before adding an antacid? Throw a bottle in the fridge or freezer for a week or so. It should drop out tartrates as sediment. Wine diamonds/ crystals. No chems needed. I’m pretty sure it would also lower the acid level some. After a week or 2 let it get back to room temp- pour a glass and compare to another to see if it helped.
If u need to add acid you could do a small bench trial on one bottle. Using Tartaric acid. Many TA test kits ($10-$15) come with a bottle of ‘acid blend’ for adjusting. That would work too. And you could taste test that right away.

 

[CUZN_J]

Odd thread choice for this lol. Is it wine from grapes? Sounds like too much acid. Ph and TA tests would tell u a lot.
You know what you could do easily before adding an antacid? Throw a bottle in the fridge or freezer for a week or so. It should drop out tartrates as sediment. Wine diamonds/ crystals. No chems needed. I’m pretty sure it would also lower the acid level some. After a week or 2 let it get back to room temp- pour a glass and compare to another to see if it helped.
If u need to add acid you could do a small bench trial on one bottle. Using Tartaric acid. Many TA test kits ($10-$15) come with a bottle of ‘acid blend’ for adjusting. That would work too. And you could taste test that right away.

First I saw [beginners wine forum ] so went to first tread, I was telling somebody the other day I didn't know how to relate the questions with the treads, they said just post it, all of us are here to learn and help, don't recall who it was, ? maybe dralarm, I knew someone would tip me as wrong tread, sorry.. Now back to the question, I am doing it the cheap way, can't afford those kits, and doing small 1 gal batches, using the frozen concentrates, making sure no additives are in it, mainly old orchard brands some welch's, always using distilled water, from wally world, I think I am overboard as far as sanitizer, I do some sanitizing 2 times, just to make sure, am trying the frige test now started it this morning, so will check it out in a few days. Like I said I am starting this venture, small and cheap, I don't expect top of the line quality, just want it drinkable, and it is like I said very good to me, but I am not any were near a average drinker, so I don't know what is really suppose to be like , but don't think it should have the bite, one person that says they drink alot of wine, told me it was really good, and not to change anything, I don't know??????

 

[Ajmassa]

Well “really good” is subjective, and if your the one drinking then better to make what u like. We talking red wines here correct?
A bag of tartaric is only a couple bucks. U could try an addition on 1 glass to see. The cold stabilizing might help know if removing acid is the answer. Even try adding a touch of sugar to a glass. That may also do the trick. Or put it in the corner and forget about it for 6 months. That can really work wonders too. Regardless- troubleshooting something like that can be fun. And when u finally figure out a remedy? It’s a good feeling. Good luck.

 

[CUZN_J]

Well “really good” is subjective, and if your the one drinking then better to make what u like. We talking red wines here correct?
A bag of tartaric is only a couple bucks. U could try an addition on 1 glass to see. The cold stabilizing might help know if removing acid is the answer. Even try adding a touch of sugar to a glass. That may also do the trick. Or put it in the corner and forget about it for 6 months. That can really work wonders too. Regardless- troubleshooting something like that can be fun. And when u finally figure out a remedy? It’s a good feeling. Good luck.

ok, the more I think about how to describe this, if I had to compare it to something, I would say it is like a highly carbonated coke bite, that little burn like feeling, it is not a bad thing but I think it would be better if it weren't there. thanks I will try these suggestions, looks like that could take some time, 2 days here 3 days there and then months, maybe I can have something to drink in a year or so, if I am still alive. lol

 

[Scooter68]

That 'coke bite' sounds like your wine might be tad too acidic. Have you taken a pH reading?

Until you do that, it's going to be tough to help you out.

And of course what variety of wine are you making?

 

[stickman]

A little bitter tang could be excess co2, or possibly sulfite if you are drinking it soon after adding a dose.

 

[CUZN_J]

That 'coke bite' sounds like your wine might be tad too acidic. Have you taken a pH reading?

Until you do that, it's going to be tough to help you out.

And of course what variety of wine are you making?

I have not done a ph test, as I figured that store bought distilled water should not have a high ph STORE BOUGHT DISTILLED WATER- Wally World

 

[CUZN_J]

A little bitter tang could be excess co2, or possibly sulfite if you are drinking it soon after adding a dose.

I have tried it at different times, seems to stay, test are from 1 week to as much as 1-1/2 months, still there , I have really tried not to do very much on the sulfites, because of things I have read about it, I also have been using the wine whip, and doing it til I don't get any foam and the once more for peace of mind. thanks

 

[Scooter68]

The water has very little to do with the pH of your wine. You should ALWAYS check the pH of the wine must before starting a fermentation and then after fermentation is concluded. Excess acidity can cause exactly the bite you are talking about. Too little acid and your wine can spoil, even if treated with Potassium Metabisulfate and Potassium Sorbate.

Monitoring and adjusting the pH prior to fermentation is one of the key steps. Grapes and other fruit vary in acidity and sweetness from year to year even from the same tree/vines. Even if you buy kit wines or juice buckets ready to go, ALWAYS check the SG and pH of the wine must before starting a fermentation. Mistakes happen even with kits and prepared juices. It's also important to know where you are starting for the purpose of knowing where you will likely end up in terms of ABV and acidity.

 

[ToadHaul]

Greetings everyone! My first newbie question:

If NA-Meta is Sodium Metabisulfite then how is Potassium Metabisulfite above that also called NA-Meta?

(This near the top of the list.)

 

[cmason1957]

Greetings everyone! My first newbie question:

If NA-Meta is Sodium Metabisulfite then how is Potassium Metabisulfite above that also called NA-Meta?

(This near the top of the list.)

That line appears to be a mistype, I think you mean the campden tablets line.

It should say something about them being either sodium or Potassium Metabisulphite (Na-Meta or K-Meta)

Finding Sodium metabisulphite is getting harder and harder, which is probably a good thing.

 

[ToadHaul]

Thank you cmason1957.

I did not want to quote both paragraphs in full, but:
----------------------
Campden Tablets - Potassium Metabisulfite in tablet form which is used at the ratio of 1 tablet per gallon when adding to wine. Can be called 'NA-Meta'

...and...

NA-Meta - Is Sodium Metabisulfite. Normal usage is 1/8 tsp to 1/4 tsp per 6 gallon recipe in must 24 hours before adding yeast. Add 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons after fermentation for preservation. Use 3 tbls per gallon of water for sanitization of equipment ( AKA Campden tablets in solid form)
--------------------
So, are Campden tablets Potassium Metabisulfite or Sodium Metabisulfite?

And which one is designated as NA-meta?

 

[Johnd]

@ToadHaul , Potassium (periodic table symbol “K”) Metabisulfite and Sodium (periodic table symbol Na) Metabisulfite both exist in winemaking in powdered form, and both can be found in tablet form (Campden Tablets), see photo below.

The Na form, whether in powdered or tablet format is said to give wine a funny taste, and isn’t used as a wine additive, it is perfectly fine as a sanitizer.

The K form, whether powdered or tablet form, is used in wine to protect it from oxidation, microbial invaders, inhibiting wild yeast in must, etc.. it is also perfectly fine as a sanitizer.

You can choose to keep both on hand if you like, but then you run the risk of ending up with Na Meta in your wine, my personal choice is to keep only K Meta on hand, in powdered form, for precise measurement and use in all of my wine additive / sanitation needs.

 

[Carolyn P]

Wonderful wine peeps can I ask a question? Can I use the lees from a wine for skeeter pee even if it ferments to below 1.000? Thanks so much!

 

[cmason1957]

Wonderful wine peeps can I ask a question? Can I use the lees from a wine for skeeter pee even if it ferments to below 1.000? Thanks so much!

You can. The yeast will probably still be fine. I make several batches of skeeter pee every year and even though the official instructions say to always use a slurry like that I never have I just make a nice starter of Ec1118 and pitch it. It Geneve just fine.

 

[user 36973]

Wonderful wine peeps can I ask a question? Can I use the lees from a wine for skeeter pee even if it ferments to below 1.000? Thanks so much!

No, you should use new yeast. Once the alcohol level reaches 9% or so the cell wall yeast membrane physically changes and that interferes with reproduction. See the post here.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/effect-of-alcohol-on-yeast.69317/

 

[Rice_Guy]

Can I use the lees from a wine for skeeter pee even if it ferments to below 1.000?!

* wine is a multi variable preservative system. At 11% alcohol and pH 3.5 it is stable against growth of most micro organismm. Equally important food poisoning organisms don’t survive so we don’t worry about getting sick. The damage which the multi variable preservative system produces is a combination, ie 13% alcohol is a bigger stress than 11% or 18% is a bigger stress yet. Most yeast do not survive above this level, but there are a few selections used to produce grain alcohol that will go above 20%. One stressor will change the effect of other stressors, , example high CO2 can drop the pH below 3 and the organism dies, , or temperature of 100F combined with alcohol can kill the yeast. “stuck fermentation” The system is complicated and hard and fast rules are hard to 100% predict.
* All yeast which is sold has proven itself to be capable of surviving in the target environment. For beer 8% alcohol, for wine usually 14% (read the specification on the yeast type, several specify 16%) and for sparkling wine 18%. A specification may say there are several selections in the brand, , , and will always specify a low level of microbial contaminants. One risk is changing the percentage in the selection from what was in the new package. , , , , In the lab I usually was able to culture yeast, but not always.
* As a home wine maker I have learned that yeast spring back life when I back sweeten, so far no explosions, , but it scores poorly in contest. This usually does not happen if the wine is 9 or more months old. This can be stopped by adding stressors as low pH or pasteurization as 120F for 50 minutes. Sugar (osmotic pressure) can also stop growth, ie in back sweetening or creating a syrup or concentrated F pack.
* In the ideal environment we grow yeast in a steady state constantly diluting environment and don’t let waste products build up. In all home fermentation’s we see that a small number of yeast multiply (learn to use the set of conditions) reach a peak and then slow down. In normal food fermentations there is a sequence as vinegar is produced by acetobacter after the alcohol fermentation. , , , It really doesn’t take a lot of population to start a fermentation, mostly the proper nutrients and low build up of waste product, , ie a fresh must.
* yeast is cheap, I don’t bother to reuse it, factory wise it is a cost and reused to some extent, , , Contamination after several cycles is the concern.

 

[Wolfenstein]

Thanks for this post, helped me learn the basics as I'm getting into winemaking.