winemanden
Senior Member
You think you've got problems do you?
I'll get my coat and shut the door behind me.
I'll get my coat and shut the door behind me.
Concord wine problems
- Thread starter rbqricchi
- Start date
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P Waddah by Jimbo
Junior
You might get 1% alcohol. Are you making it for a Church? Just thinking.
P Waddah by Jimbo
Junior
okay, cool
@rbqricchi
Did your ferment finish? If you are bulk aging let me recommend some oak for bulk aging. I used 1 spiral in a 5-gallon carboy and it did wonders for a wild grape wine.
@BigDaveK add @winemaker81
I fermented an apple wine… one carboy with EC1118 and one with 71B. I racked about two weeks ago and Now the EC1118 is crystal clear while the 71B is still cloudy. I have a a three gallon carboy that was two thirds to three quarters 71B. It is crystal clear as well. So yeah, it looks like the EC1118 murdered their cousins and finished that one. It will be interesting to see how that carboy compares on taste.
Did your ferment finish? If you are bulk aging let me recommend some oak for bulk aging. I used 1 spiral in a 5-gallon carboy and it did wonders for a wild grape wine.
@BigDaveK add @winemaker81
I fermented an apple wine… one carboy with EC1118 and one with 71B. I racked about two weeks ago and Now the EC1118 is crystal clear while the 71B is still cloudy. I have a a three gallon carboy that was two thirds to three quarters 71B. It is crystal clear as well. So yeah, it looks like the EC1118 murdered their cousins and finished that one. It will be interesting to see how that carboy compares on taste.
I start my fruit dessert wines with 71B later adding EC1118. The glycerol and fruity esters from 71B seem to hold up nicely.
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Chuck, glad you asked! On Jan. 12 I re-hydrated a packet of EC-1118 and dumped it in. This was in a 5 gallon carboy, filled to the base of the neck. I thought about moving it back to my 6.5 gallon carboy but decided I would just keep a close watch for a day or two and move it only if necessary. The carboy was on a table in my basement, where the temp was 60F.
Soon there was a thin white ring of foam around the base of the neck, but no perceivable bubbles, so I wondered if the foam ring could just be from me pouring the milky yeast in. After two days, still no apparent activity so I put the carboy on a heating pad and wrapped in a blanket. Later in the day I added a half teaspoon of yeast energizer and the wine immediately foamed up, so I knew there had been activity after all. Fortunately, it did not foam up enough to climb into the airlock.
For the next few days I had slow, visible fermentation – a few bubbles constantly streaming to the top. After about 4 days it stopped and a couple days later there was no foam around the neck and no activity at all. I let it sit a couple more days and then took a reading. No change! Still 1.006!
I agitated the wine in my hydrometer jar several times thinking gas in suspension was holding the hydrometer up, but no dice. Still 1.006.
I racked to a clean 5 gallon carboy, sulfited and topped up and set it back in it’s dark corner in the basement where it is 58F, intending to let it sit until spring.
A few days ago I decided to carry it upstairs and let it sit until spring up here where the temp is between 66 and 69 degrees, figuring that it will have a better chance of slowly munching down those last several gravity points. Hopefully it will get there with time.
That’s where I stand now.
Soon there was a thin white ring of foam around the base of the neck, but no perceivable bubbles, so I wondered if the foam ring could just be from me pouring the milky yeast in. After two days, still no apparent activity so I put the carboy on a heating pad and wrapped in a blanket. Later in the day I added a half teaspoon of yeast energizer and the wine immediately foamed up, so I knew there had been activity after all. Fortunately, it did not foam up enough to climb into the airlock.
For the next few days I had slow, visible fermentation – a few bubbles constantly streaming to the top. After about 4 days it stopped and a couple days later there was no foam around the neck and no activity at all. I let it sit a couple more days and then took a reading. No change! Still 1.006!
I agitated the wine in my hydrometer jar several times thinking gas in suspension was holding the hydrometer up, but no dice. Still 1.006.
I racked to a clean 5 gallon carboy, sulfited and topped up and set it back in it’s dark corner in the basement where it is 58F, intending to let it sit until spring.
A few days ago I decided to carry it upstairs and let it sit until spring up here where the temp is between 66 and 69 degrees, figuring that it will have a better chance of slowly munching down those last several gravity points. Hopefully it will get there with time.
That’s where I stand now.
Unfortunately sometimes the wines gonna do what the wine wants to do!
I think the sweetness and foxy (concord) taste benefits from some
Oak. Try a medium toast oak spiral in the carboy for two or three months. Even if the Sg doesn’t change it will increase the dryness. I have not heard complaints about this dose in a five or six gallon batch.
Time for an update: The wine has been upstairs for the last 2 months, where the temps ranged from 66F to 69F. Still no change in gravity, still at 1.006. It’s been at this gravity for almost 6 months.
I tasted the hydrometer sample and it is very nice.
It started at 1.092 and fermented with Montrachet down to 1.006. EC1118 added in January to no effect. Both of these yeasts are capable of fermenting to a higher percent alcohol than this wine.
When I bottle this wine I will of course sulfite it, but because it didn’t ferment bone dry should I sorbate it, too? Will sorbate even work if this is merely a stalled fermentation? How will I know when it’s “done” if the gravity never changes any more?
I have the option of bottling it in beer bottles with oxygen absorbing caps if I want to, which might be helpful if it ever decides to start fermenting again.
Thanks!
I tasted the hydrometer sample and it is very nice.
It started at 1.092 and fermented with Montrachet down to 1.006. EC1118 added in January to no effect. Both of these yeasts are capable of fermenting to a higher percent alcohol than this wine.
When I bottle this wine I will of course sulfite it, but because it didn’t ferment bone dry should I sorbate it, too? Will sorbate even work if this is merely a stalled fermentation? How will I know when it’s “done” if the gravity never changes any more?
I have the option of bottling it in beer bottles with oxygen absorbing caps if I want to, which might be helpful if it ever decides to start fermenting again.
Thanks!
If the yeast is not eating, it's not reproducing. If you bulk age 9+ months you can skip the sorbate, as that's apparently the die-off point. If you're nervous, add the sorbate.
Given the above choices, there's no need to bottle in beer bottles.
I think you've done everything you can. Are you more concerned about increasing the ABV, or whether it's done and you can move on to the next steps? You're around 11.6%ABV. If it has been sitting at 1.006 for that long, I think you're where you are (which is completely fine). I agree with Bryan's advice that it's ok to bottle.
How does it taste? That will help you decide your next steps. Were it me, I would add some kmeta and seal it up (use a silicone breathable bung) to sit for some time in bulk. In my experience, Concord takes a good long time to take the rough edges off. I would also add some glycerine to help smooth it out. At the end of the day, it's your palate and your tastes that matter. If you like it - that's what counts. Alternately, you could bottle and then open one up every few months or so to see how it's doing. You may find variances in bottles when aging that way, but by and large they should probably be fairly similar.
There are a lot of good bottling methods - use what works for you. I use a fermonster because it's easy to dump the kmeta and glycerine in the bottom, rack the carboy off the remaining lees into the fermonster (and to mix in while racking), and then use the spigot to sit and fill bottles (while occasionally sampling to ensure quality and listening to music). It's just what works for me now.
Sounds like you've done a great job! Congrats and enjoy!
How does it taste? That will help you decide your next steps. Were it me, I would add some kmeta and seal it up (use a silicone breathable bung) to sit for some time in bulk. In my experience, Concord takes a good long time to take the rough edges off. I would also add some glycerine to help smooth it out. At the end of the day, it's your palate and your tastes that matter. If you like it - that's what counts. Alternately, you could bottle and then open one up every few months or so to see how it's doing. You may find variances in bottles when aging that way, but by and large they should probably be fairly similar.
There are a lot of good bottling methods - use what works for you. I use a fermonster because it's easy to dump the kmeta and glycerine in the bottom, rack the carboy off the remaining lees into the fermonster (and to mix in while racking), and then use the spigot to sit and fill bottles (while occasionally sampling to ensure quality and listening to music). It's just what works for me now.
Sounds like you've done a great job! Congrats and enjoy!
David's answer is a good choice. If it were me, I'd do the same -- use a vented bung (my current preference) or stopper/airlock and ignore the wine until at least July, preferably September. Keep an eye on it, in case it starts fermenting again.
If there is no evidence of fermentation and the SG is the same by September, bottle.
BTW, if it tastes good now, it will be better in September!
Brian and David, thanks for the advice, which I will follow. I do hate the waiting, though. I think that's part of the reason I switched from wine making to beer making about 30 years ago. I already know I'll make this again, and probably regularly, so once I have a batch on hand that's ready to drink the patience will come easier with future batches.
I do have another question for future batches, about aeration. Coming from a beer making background where oxygenation is absolutely verboten once fermentation has begun it is hard for me to wrap my head around the frequent splashing and stirring and sampling you wine makers seem to do, but it seems that my lack of aerating, at least early in the ferment may be the reason the wine didn't ferment out?
At what point with wine does it become a bad idea to introduce any further oxygen?
At what point with wine does it become a bad idea to introduce any further oxygen?
This is a serious answer -- make more wine.
We are always making wine for the future. I make a variety of wines, both shorter aging (lighter reds, whites, fruits) and longer aging (heavy reds and whites), which means I have a wide variety of wines to drink at any time.
It will take several years to get to that point. Making a carboy at a time doesn't work -- which is ok, since carboys seem to multiply like rabbits!
When the wine is degassed.
During fermentation, wine yeast needs O2 for reproduction, so stirring daily is beneficial. This also keeps the cap from drying out, which can be a haven for mold, and ensures all the solids have exposure to the wine for extraction.
Post fermentation, the wine is degassing for at least a few weeks. Leaving extra headspace in carboys can avoid purple (or other colored) volcanoes if the wine still active. After a few weeks of that, or racking after fining, you want to reduce headspace to a few inches.
Rack as few times as necessary, and be efficient during racking. Add K-meta to address oxidation and handle other contaminants, and don't sweat it.
This is a serious answer -- make more wine.
We are always making wine for the future. I make a variety of wines, both shorter aging (lighter reds, whites, fruits) and longer aging (heavy reds and whites), which means I have a wide variety of wines to drink at any time.
It will take several years to get to that point. Making a carboy at a time doesn't work -- which is ok, since carboys seem to multiply like rabbits!
Hmmm,,adjust your winemaking habits to your drinking habits, not the other way around. Brilliant! :^)
I already have (2) 3 gallon, (2) 5 gallon, (1) 6 gallon and (2) 7 gallon carboys available so I am ready to follow your sound advice, again.
Thanks again!
Yes… I think you understand now.
I have been steadily increasing production to get ahead of the curve.
2019 - 5 gallons… gone
2020 - 10 gallons… gone
2021 - 18 gallons… perhaps 40 bottles in the cellar
2022 - 34 gallons, still in bulk!
Honestly, it's realism, not brilliance.
3,000 years ago one of the Greek philosophers said, "know thyself." It's the secret to happiness. This has nothing directly to do with winemaking, although in my case I can't say the two are not intertwined.
BernardSmith
Senior Member
Concord grapes have a flavor that I enjoy so I have absolutely no experience with wine making using these grapes. But I wonder, and no one seems to have spoken to this point. The fact that neither of the yeasts used were able to pull this wine any closer to brut dryness than 1.006 suggests to me that there may be compounds in the juice that affect the density of the liquid but which are not themselves fermentable sugars. Is that possible?
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