WineXpert Confused about water amounts in Winexpert kit

[Joel81]

Hi, my first time trying a winexpert private reserve Amarone kit with grapeskins.
According to instructions you should fill up the winebucket to 23l and then add the grapeskin bag + 250ml water.
My oeschle were then only at 82 so I added 300g extra dextros.
Now oeschle is around -5 so I removed the bag and squeezed out juice, and the bucket now has 25l wine.
There must be something wrong to the instructions, like I should only have filled water up to 21-22l. Now I cannot fit all the wine into the 23l carboy.

Anyone else had similar issues with these kits? Feels like the instructions does not add up.

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

I had to lookup Oechsle, as I wasn't familiar with that scale.

Off hand, I suspect you mis-measured your water. The WE instructions are well written -- put the concentrate into a bucket (typically with bentonite) and fill to 23 liter, stirring well. The skinpack + 250 ml water does not explain the 25 liters. Besides, if you added too much water, that explains the low gravity.

Given that most of our members are North American, I suggest including specific gravity readings when you post. You'll get much better help if people don't have to convert units.

FermCalc has a unit converter that I used to determine that 82 Oechsle is SG 1.080.

https://fermcalc.com/FermCalcJS.html

 

[Joel81]

I think Oechsle and S.G. is the same type of measurement just different ways of displaying the results e.g. Oechsle 82 = S.G. 1.082 and Oechle -5 = S.G. 0.995.
I did follow the instructions, the grapebag prob weighed ~2kg(4 pounds) + 250ml water +300g(2/3 pound) sugar and the bag I discarded weighed less than 800g(1 3/4 pound) so at least 1.5liters extra.

 

[winemaker81]

Yes, the various scales all do the same thing. The problem lies in folks having to translate. I typically post in US customary and metric, and have been learning to think in metric, as it's less ambiguous. That's a slow progress ...

Did you fill by mass? If so, therein lies the problem -- you need to reconstitute by volume as mass is not a target value. The common 7.9 US gallon fermenter available in the USA has volume measurements on the side. When reconstituting a kit, I add the concentrate and bentonite (if included), the fill to the 23 liter point.

On the plus side, your wine should be fine.

 

[Rocky]

Hello Joel81 and welcome to the forum.

I have been reading your posts and I have some questions:

1. What is the Oechsle (or SG) now after removing the bag and squeezing out the juice?
2. I don't understand how the Oechsle dropped from the equivalent of SG 1.082 to the equivalent of SG 0.995 after adding sugar (dextrose). When you added the dextrose, did you also add water, for example to dissolve the dextrose?

I have made that kit a number of times and it is one of my favorites. Your original Oechsle would have given you a final ABV (alcohol by volume) of just under 12%. I assume you want something stronger. When I make this Amarone, I try for an ABV of 12.5% and I add sucrose if necessary (that is, if the anticipated ABV is under 12.5%) or more water if necessary (that is if the anticipated ABV is significantly greater than 12.5%).

 

[Joel81]

S.G. was 1.082 after I added the grape bag, then I added 2/3 pounds of glucose, did not measure it again after I added the sugar.
Now after 2 weeks of fermentation S.G. is 0.995.
My question is not really about alcohol levels or S.G. but more how adding the grapeskins after I already measured 23l of juice can result in 23l wine?

 

[Rocky]

S.G. was 1.082 after I added the grape bag, then I added 2/3 pounds of glucose, did not measure it again after I added the sugar.
Now after 2 weeks of fermentation S.G. is 0.995.
My question is not really about alcohol levels or S.G. but more how adding the grapeskins after I already measured 23l of juice can result in 23l wine?

I understand.

When I make the kit, I first add the bentonite to the fermenter, then the juice and enough water to bring the total volume to 23 liters. Then, I move the grape skins to the mesh bag which I have stretched over a large cooking pot. I rinse out the grape skin bag with a cup (about 250 ml) of water and pour that into the bag, tie up the bag at the top and place it and any liquid in the pot into the fermenter. I also squeeze the bag about 2 times a day during the initial phase of fermentation.

When I remove the bag, the wine level is very close to 23 liters. It could be slightly more or slightly less. In any case, the only "extra" liquid added is the cup (250 ml) of water which dissipates through absorption by the skins and/or evaporation. I have not experienced the gain in volume that you have.

 

[Jim Welch]

When I reconstitute a kit I use the amount of water in the directions as a guide as I’ve found it best for me to target a particular original gravity and I’ll pick one out of the upper range typically given in kit instructions. I start with about 90% of what the directions call for and after very thorough multiple stirrings check the gravity and dilute from there. I check the ph when I’m where I want to be and have never been outside of a safe ph range from a kit.

 

[Joel81]

Yeah, I'm not sure if the grapeskin bag are different for some batches. I've seen videos where the skins comes out from the bag in a somewhat smaller firm lump, mine were more juicy and big so may have been more liquid than usual.
Anyway wine still is fine so I'll go with what I got and maybe fill an extra jar with the excess wine that will not fit into the carboy and put in the fridge.

 

[winemaker81]

When doing batch planning, I target having more wine than will fit in the primary container(s), and have a lot of small bottles for excess. If the wine is 100% still, #2 solid bungs work great as temporary corks.

 

[Jovimaple]

Welcome to WMT!

 

[denky28]

When I reconstitute a kit I use the amount of water in the directions as a guide as I’ve found it best for me to target a particular original gravity and I’ll pick one out of the upper range typically given in kit instructions. I start with about 90% of what the directions call for and after very thorough multiple stirrings check the gravity and dilute from there. I check the ph when I’m where I want to be and have never been outside of a safe ph range from a kit.

Great advice. I had the same problem as discussed herein with this kit. I will implement your method going forward. Thanks for the advice.