Crabapple wine recipe

[jigmee7276]

Hello community,
So i've recently found crabapples growing in my garden. The crabapple variety is native to my place in Sikkim, Northern India. ( a.k.a mallus sikkimensis ). I'm new to winemaking and most definitely not a horticulturalist. If there is anybody who has a deep knowledge on crabapples combined with its usage in making wine, can you tell me some good recipes for making wine? Also do these fruits need to be ripened before you make a must from it? because my crabapples are quite sour when harvested from the garden. It only becomes sweet when they fall off their branches and begin to spoil. IS this the best time to make a must from them? Also would combining them with kiwis make a good fruit wine? I would really like if these questions are answered. Cheers!

 

[hounddawg]

yes as ripe as you can get them, even then our crabapples(USA) need back sweetened, to bring out the flavor , as is the case with most country wines,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

putting your fruit and berries in the freezer and freezing them solid first, will help break down the cell walls giving you more must and flavor as well.
Dawg

 

[jigmee7276]

putting your fruit and berries in the freezer and freezing them solid first, will help break down the cell walls giving you more must and flavor as well.
Dawg

putting your fruit and berries in the freezer and freezing them solid first, will help break down the cell walls giving you more must and flavor as well.
Dawg

Did exactly that. Getting an intense aromatic must in the fermentation. I might have added a little too much of pectic enzyme. ( 2-3 tsp ). Will that affect the wine?

 

[hounddawg]

Did exactly that. Getting an intense aromatic must in the fermentation. I might have added a little too much of pectic enzyme. ( 2-3 tsp ). Will that affect the wine?

i don't believe so. i add tons of PE , to banana and pineapple and pear wines with no ill effect,
Dawg

 

[BigDaveK]

I've added too much also.
From what I've read too much pectic enzyme might reduce color of red wines, it might speed up maturing making a wine over-the-hill before it's time, and it might cause excess methanol to be produced.
It seems the most concrete side effect of using more pectic enzyme than is needed is that it's a waste of money.

 

[mikewatkins727]

Did exactly that. Getting an intense aromatic must in the fermentation. I might have added a little too much of pectic enzyme. ( 2-3 tsp ). Will that affect the wine?

I once used a tablespoon instead of a teaspoon when measuring pectic enzyme once without noticing any ill effects.

 

[Hazelemere]

I once used a tablespoon instead of a teaspoon when measuring pectic enzyme once without noticing any ill effects.

you can't overdose pectic enzyme

 

[hounddawg]

Did exactly that. Getting an intense aromatic must in the fermentation. I might have added a little too much of pectic enzyme. ( 2-3 tsp ). Will that affect the wine?

IMHO ,,nope when I do banana, pineapple or pear i pour from the sac,/bag,,
but that's just me,
Dawg

 

[Rice_Guy]

- pectic enzyme is a protein which has the ability to cleave pectin molecules. Pectin is a constituent of cell walls, different plant have different levels. The apple family is a good source for pectin.
- a commercial source of pectase is from Aspergillis Niger. In producing enzymes they are stabilized with bovine serum albumen, ,,,, there really isn’t much enzyme in a teaspoon of dry powder.
- color at least red and purple colors are polyphenols. Pectase does not drive/ catalyze polyphenol cleavage. Breaking cell walls might improve extraction of polyphenols, but I haven’t seen articles which are doing that. The crabs I use are red flesh, since pectin degrades cell walls treating ground apple might improve extraction from the flesh. White flesh apples yield non colored polyphenols as tannin, ie on white flesh color loss isn’t an issue. In my process I add pectase to the juice therefore I haven’t seen any increase in color yield. Some factory processes add pectase to the pulp to improve juice yield.
- pectic enzyme is less active in an alcohol solution. If the fermentation is going I double the dry volume. A technically correct dosage would increase as the percentage alcohol increases. ie add it early before fermentation.
- pectin is less soluble in alcohol and produces a cloud. The purpose of adding pectase to wine is to break methyl esters/ chop the molecule up so it does not produce visible particles.

 

[jigmee7276]

- pectic enzyme is a protein which has the ability to cleave pectin molecules. Pectin is a constituent of cell walls, different plant have different levels. The apple family is a good source for pectin.
- a commercial source of pectase is from Aspergillis Niger. In producing enzymes they are stabilized with bovine serum albumen, ,,,, there really isn’t much enzyme in a teaspoon of dry powder.
- color at least red and purple colors are polyphenols. Pectase does not drive/ catalyze polyphenol cleavage. Breaking cell walls might improve extraction of polyphenols, but I haven’t seen articles which are doing that. The crabs I use are red flesh, since pectin builds cell walls treating ground apple might improve extraction from the flesh. White flesh apples yield non colored polyphenols as tannin, ie on white flesh color loss isn’t an issue. In my process I add pectase to the juice therefore I haven’t seen any increase in yield. Some factory processes add pectase to the pulp to improve yield.
- pectic enzyme is less active in an alcohol solution. If the fermentation is going I double the dry volume. A technically correct dosage would increase as the percentage alcohol increases. ie add it early before fermentation.
- pectin is less soluble in alcohol and produces a cloud. The purpose of adding pectase to wine is to break methyl esters/ chop the molecule up so it does not produce visible particles.

I have used it twice but havent tested its effectiveness. The first was for kiwi wine. It improved the clarity of the wine from hazy and cloudy debris from my early attempt at making kiwi wine. Of course i added it before fermentation. For this crab apple batch, it seems to have increased the S.G of the wine. Before pitching the enzyme and yeast, the hydrometer read 1.09 after a couple of days the S.G dropped to 1.11 now its sitting at 1.08. I think, my two cents, it broke down the must further and increased the density even more. Anyways i have to deal with a higher alcohol percentage. That fine by me.

 

[sour_grapes]

I have used it twice but havent tested its effectiveness. The first was for kiwi wine. It improved the clarity of the wine from hazy and cloudy debris from my early attempt at making kiwi wine. Of course i added it before fermentation. For this crab apple batch, it seems to have increased the S.G of the wine. Before pitching the enzyme and yeast, the hydrometer read 1.09 after a couple of days the S.G dropped to 1.11 now its sitting at 1.08. I think, my two cents, it broke down the must further and increased the density even more. Anyways i have to deal with a higher alcohol percentage. That fine by me.

Just for clarity, do you mean that your SG went from
1.090
to
1.011
to
1.008?

I am guessing this is what you meant. It is always best to use 3 decimal places to describe your SG, and be careful about getting them in the right spot.

 

[jigmee7276]

Just for clarity, do you mean that your SG went from
1.090
to
1.011
to
1.008?

I am guessing this is what you meant. It is always best to use 3 decimal places to describe your SG, and be careful about getting them in the right spot.

No i meant exactly what i meant the specific gravity dropped from my initial S.G of 1.080 to 1.110. This probably was because the pectic enzyme broke down the must along with the raisins added further to increase the density of wine or maybe i just took the reading too early.
A question here to anyone willing to answer. When do you exactly measure the initial S.G of your must?

 

[Rice_Guy]

question here to anyone willing to answer. When do you measure the initial S.G of your must?

normal is when everything has been together for 24 hours/ just before the yeast are added

If I was in the lab I could blend a sample in a Wharing blender till smooth > filter with a kitchen screen then measure

Look at how stable the beverage is, if the gravity was 1.080 and you made 10% alcohol, it is shelf stable, ,,, traditional recipes from 1900 with yeast from nature that stop at 9% alcohol were published in cook books because they work, ,,, and if a wine averaged 1.100 after adding raisins modern yeast selections will still tolerate the alcohol

 

[sour_grapes]

No i meant exactly what i meant the specific gravity dropped from my initial S.G of 1.080 to 1.110. This probably was because the pectic enzyme broke down the must along with the raisins added further to increase the density of wine or maybe i just took the reading too early.
A question here to anyone willing to answer. When do you exactly measure the initial S.G of your must?

I apologize for doubting your figures. I appreciate that, although your English is excellent, it may not be your first language. I was thrown by your unorthodox use of the word "dropped" to mean an increase. Most people used "dropped" when reporting a decrease. I stand by my recommendation to use 3 decimal places in reporting SG values.

 

[vinny]

No i meant exactly what i meant the specific gravity dropped from my initial S.G of 1.080 to 1.110. This probably was because the pectic enzyme broke down the must along with the raisins added further to increase the density of wine or maybe i just took the reading too early.
A question here to anyone willing to answer. When do you exactly measure the initial S.G of your must?

It depends on what is in your must. If you are using liquids they will blend together very quickly and you can take an accurate reading. Immediately, once your must is well mixed.

Yesterday, I mixed up a kiwi rhubarb, with bananas. I let it warm on the counter with pectic enzyme. Once it was at room temperature I added the solids to nut milk bags to make it easier to transfer to secondary. I mixed the must to 1.100 and transferred solids to the bags. I moved the bags to another primary bucket and let them drain. The liquid from the fruit was 1.080. I added an additional 1 1/2 cups of sugar to the must to bring it to 1.120. Higher than I want, but with the hopes that it will balance around 1.100.

I admit I don't know 100% what my ABV will be. What I have found is that yeast do a great job of breaking down fruit and extracting what they can. A full bag of fruit will compress down to a handful of pulp after the yeast have had a few days to digest it. I could have pressed out more juice and gotten a perfect reading, but I really don't care to be THAT precise with a gallon of completely experimental flavors.

With a 6 gallon kit I am diligent on accurate readings and recordings, but they are VERY easy without solids. This one is a total experiment, so being less specific is ok with me.

As for Sour Grapes misunderstanding (as well as mine) we use three digits to minimize confusion, but it is also considered an increase from 1.080 to 1.110, and as the fermentation progresses the SG will drop below 1.000 at completion. As low as .990 for a very dry wine.

In your case there were more sugars added to the must with the raisins, and time could have allowed that to increase your SG. The thing to consider is your initial specific gravity is a measure of potential ABV. There are other factors involved that make it a rough estimation. The reason I want to know my starting gravity is to have a rough idea of ABV, but also to track the fermentation as it progresses. You will never know 100% only using a hydrometer, and for me 11-13% is what I aim for.

 

[winemaker81]

A question here to anyone willing to answer. When do you exactly measure the initial S.G of your must?

I generally trust the reading taken 24 hours after blending. No matter how well we believe we mixed, it's rarely good enough. This includes wines made from concentrates, grapes, or other fruit. I also take readings from three places in my primary, and if the readings match, I trust it. If not, I mix it more. Note that my minimum batch size is normally 19 liters -- if making a 4 liter batch, there are difficulties in measuring in three places.

A jump from 1.080 to 1.110 is a LOT, hence Paul's (@sour_grapes) question. We have enough typos in reported SG readings that anything out of the ordinary raises questions regarding the accuracy of the report. The questions ensure that we have accurate information upon which to base our help to you.

In another thread I reported from my notes between 08/2021 and 10/2022 that most of my SG readings changed from Day 1 to Day 2 (which is when I inoculate). Your jump may be due to raisins releasing sugar, and may also be related to how well you stirred. This is not a reflection on you -- it's all about how difficult it is to produce a homogenous mixture from the winemaking components. I was positive I stirred well until I proved to myself that I didn't.

 

[vinny]

it's all about how difficult it is to produce a homogenous mixture from the winemaking components.

Get out the drill attachment!

 

[Raptor99]

It's possible that the pectic enzyme breaks down the cells and releases additional sugar. At least that's the theory. For that reason, I like to leave it sit for 24 hours after adding pectic enzyme, and then take my original Brix reading. There have been a few times I have seen the SG/Brix creep up a bit after adding the pectic enzyme.

 

[jigmee7276]

I apologize for doubting your figures. I appreciate that, although your English is excellent, it may not be your first language. I was thrown by your unorthodox use of the word "dropped" to mean an increase. Most people used "dropped" when reporting a decrease. I stand by my recommendation to use 3 decimal places in reporting SG values.

I'm very sorry if i caused any confusion. My usage of " dropped" can be subjective. I misplaced the term in meaning that divisions in the hydrometer dropped. I'm sorry to have created any confusion. Next time i'll choose my words more carefully. Thank you