DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine

[MarcOlivetti]

Thanks! I was worried I had missed or did something wrong and after several hours of reading, I thought I would ask. At least I had enough sense to stop and didn’t make ~30 wine bombs . Slowing down and letting it degas on its own, I can do. It probably didn’t help that I moved it from the heated fermenter area to the unheated work area which is at 55* slowing the process down. I was making for summer consumption anywayThank you for talking me down off the trellis!

 

[SassyBoots]

Hi Everyone!! I'm a complete newb to the world of Dragon Blood Wine. Just in the midst of my first batch. I've always just made kit wines. I'm making my way through the posts in this thread, but there are SO many lol. I just did straight blueberry this time, and I think it might be a bit thin because I didn't read far enough into the thread to see its ok to go heavier on the fruit....so that will be for the upcoming batches.

I'm curious to know if anyone has tried using Rhubarb or Rhubarb/Raspberry or maybe Sour Cherry using Danger Daves recipe? I have a ton of both the Sour Cherries and Rhubarb in my freezer. I'm not experienced enough in this recipe to know what tweaks the recipe would need with such tart/acidic fruit? Has any one tried this?

 

[KCCam]

Thanks! I was worried I had missed or did something wrong and after several hours of reading, I thought I would ask. At least I had enough sense to stop and didn’t make ~30 wine bombs . Slowing down and letting it degas on its own, I can do. It probably didn’t help that I moved it from the heated fermenter area to the unheated work area which is at 55* slowing the process down. I was making for summer consumption anywayThank you for talking me down off the trellis!

I know it's been a couple weeks. How's it going? Yah, gas dissolves in liquid much better at colder temps, so warming it up helps degas. Also, you don't make bombs with wine that isn't completely degassed. That just adds a little tingle to the tongue when you drink it. Bombs come from wine that is still making CO2 (ie, still fermenting) in the bottle.

Also, the headspace eliminator isn't meant for degassing, it's meant for bulk aging. If you are degassing with the AIO, rather than with time, you have to keep applying the vacuum. The first time you pull a vacuum on a batch, you do it very slowly, because you can make a huge mess with all the foam that suddenly appears. I use a vacuum gauge on mine, the HE is not a good indicator of vacuum. The first time, 22" of vacuum will return to 0 in just a few minutes as the CO2 is released. The next time it takes a little longer. Once the vacuum remains constant, or almost so, then there is very little CO2 left in the wine. Think of it this way: with 100 ml headspace, using a HE, you can only remove 100 ml of CO2 at a time. If you pull a vacuum and leave a HE on the carboy, it might still be collapsed at 3" vacuum (or 0, if it sticks), which won't be doing much to release any more. However, even though it's not a vacuum, it IS mostly CO2 - so no oxygen, thus protecting the wine from oxidation. Careful though, because wine left to degas naturally over time isn't actually fully degassed either. It's in equilibrium with the amount of CO2 in the air above it. Removing more CO2 than would naturally be released over time might leave the wine seeming a little flat, or so I've heard. I have a 2 L reservoir on my AIO setup, in addition to the standard 750 ml wine bottle, so when I pull a vacuum and turn the pump off, it takes almost 3 L of CO2 to equalize the pressure instead of only maybe 100 ml.

 

[KCCam]

Hi Everyone!! I'm a complete newb to the world of Dragon Blood Wine. Just in the midst of my first batch. I've always just made kit wines. I'm making my way through the posts in this thread, but there are SO many lol. I just did straight blueberry this time, and I think it might be a bit thin because I didn't read far enough into the thread to see its ok to go heavier on the fruit....so that will be for the upcoming batches.

I'm curious to know if anyone has tried using Rhubarb or Rhubarb/Raspberry or maybe Sour Cherry using Danger Daves recipe? I have a ton of both the Sour Cherries and Rhubarb in my freezer. I'm not experienced enough in this recipe to know what tweaks the recipe would need with such tart/acidic fruit? Has any one tried this?

Hey, welcome to the wonderful world of DB! This was my first foray into non-kit wine too. It is awesome. You can literally make it any way you want. Even with no fruit you basically get Skeeter Pee, so it is very hard to make an undrinkable DB, in my humble opinion. If your batch is still fermenting, and maybe even if it's not, you could always add more fruit now. Put in a few bananas, or a pound or 2 of raisins, both of which will add mouth feel without altering the taste much, if at all. I actually did that with a Skeeter Pee that just wasn't working for me. After several weeks, I added all the berries I could find in my freezer, and more sugar and yeast, and voila! DB.

When you get far enough into the thread you will come across my sour cherry version. It turned out excellent. We have Evans cherries here in Alberta. Very pale pink flesh, not too sour to eat when ripe but more than a few at a time would be too much. I used 11 lbs (with pits) plus 4.5 lbs fresh blueberries and 2 pounds of bananas (with skins) for 6 gal. I think the color would be lacking without the blueberries, which impart a beautiful DB red. I haven't tried rhubarb, but my sister has a bunch I may try something with this year. I've read it can be extremely acidic, so I might wait until I invest in a pH meter. She also has about 50 lbs of plums I may try a full-blown country wine with, and a DB variant if there's any left over.

 

[SassyBoots]

Hey, welcome to the wonderful world of DB! This was my first foray into non-kit wine too. It is awesome. You can literally make it any way you want. Even with no fruit you basically get Skeeter Pee, so it is very hard to make an undrinkable DB, in my humble opinion. If your batch is still fermenting, and maybe even if it's not, you could always add more fruit now. Put in a few bananas, or a pound or 2 of raisins, both of which will add mouth feel without altering the taste much, if at all. I actually did that with a Skeeter Pee that just wasn't working for me. After several weeks, I added all the berries I could find in my freezer, and more sugar and yeast, and voila! DB.

When you get far enough into the thread you will come across my sour cherry version. It turned out excellent. We have Evans cherries here in Alberta. Very pale pink flesh, not too sour to eat when ripe but more than a few at a time would be too much. I used 11 lbs (with pits) plus 4.5 lbs fresh blueberries and 2 pounds of bananas (with skins) for 6 gal. I think the color would be lacking without the blueberries, which impart a beautiful DB red. I haven't tried rhubarb, but my sister has a bunch I may try something with this year. I've read it can be extremely acidic, so I might wait until I invest in a pH meter. She also has about 50 lbs of plums I may try a full-blown country wine with, and a DB variant if there's any left over.

Hello Back!!! I am also from Alberta!! Edmonton here. I have a very small sour cherry tree in my back yard, not enough for wine,(usually get enough for some goodies or a batch of jam) but I have a friend that has several trees so finding your recipe will be a bonus. Rhubarb is really acidic, yes. Tried to make a batch with a rhubarb/sour cherry blend a few years ago and was flying blind as I couldn't find a good recipe anywhere to follow. Was not a good experiment lol. However, I've since found what looks like a decent standard recipe for Rhubarb so I'll be trying that. As far as the DB goes, I'm already in love lol. Premature, but I'm sampling a very, very young glass with a bit of sweetener in it and its wonderful-even though I should be leaving it alone for another week I couldn't help myself, the color is amazing, its cleared beautifully, and I figured what the heck?? I'll be racking and sweetening this weekend anyway. A little on the acidic side because its straight blueberry, but still quite tasty. Can't wait to see how it ages out a bit. I'm already chomping at the bit to get another batch started but I'll go a bit heavier on the fruit. I am going to have an absolute blast playing with this recipe....I have three primaries and seven carboys(I inherited some supplies lol) and I can see them getting a workout with this!!

 

[KCCam]

I am also from Alberta!! Edmonton here.

Nice to meet you. I grew up in Edmonton, Capilano area. Live in Sherwood Park now.

I've since found what looks like a decent standard recipe for Rhubarb so I'll be trying that.

I wouldn't mind taking a look at that. Could you maybe PM it to me?

even though I should be leaving it alone for another week

Seriously? No way, I sample at every step along the way.

the color is amazing

That's what got me. I was searching for something else, and happened upon the Picture from DangerDave's recipe. I was hooked by that alone.

I have three primaries and seven carboys(I inherited some supplies lol)

That's how I got my start. I used to enjoy the odd bottle I got from my uncle, then inherited his equipment when he passed... about the same amount as you. Then I doubled up for $50 at a garage sale last summer. Got some big things on my "To Do" list before I'm allowed to start another batch. Arrggg.

 

[hounddawg]

I know it's been a couple weeks. How's it going? Yah, gas dissolves in liquid much better at colder temps, so warming it up helps degas. Also, you don't make bombs with wine that isn't completely degassed. That just adds a little tingle to the tongue when you drink it. Bombs come from wine that is still making CO2 (ie, still fermenting) in the bottle.

Also, the headspace eliminator isn't meant for degassing, it's meant for bulk aging. If you are degassing with the AIO, rather than with time, you have to keep applying the vacuum. The first time you pull a vacuum on a batch, you do it very slowly, because you can make a huge mess with all the foam that suddenly appears. I use a vacuum gauge on mine, the HE is not a good indicator of vacuum. The first time, 22" of vacuum will return to 0 in just a few minutes as the CO2 is released. The next time it takes a little longer. Once the vacuum remains constant, or almost so, then there is very little CO2 left in the wine. Think of it this way: with 100 ml headspace, using a HE, you can only remove 100 ml of CO2 at a time. If you pull a vacuum and leave a HE on the carboy, it might still be collapsed at 3" vacuum (or 0, if it sticks), which won't be doing much to release any more. However, even though it's not a vacuum, it IS mostly CO2 - so no oxygen, thus protecting the wine from oxidation. Careful though, because wine left to degas naturally over time isn't actually fully degassed either. It's in equilibrium with the amount of CO2 in the air above it. Removing more CO2 than would naturally be released over time might leave the wine seeming a little flat, or so I've heard. I have a 2 L reservoir on my AIO setup, in addition to the standard 750 ml wine bottle, so when I pull a vacuum and turn the pump off, it takes almost 3 L of CO2 to equalize the pressure instead of only maybe 100 ml.

Time is your best ingredient is time, for bulking, for degassing and for maturing your wine, anyone in a hurry then make skeeter pee to spare your fine wines, i unassay make skitter pee at 25 gallons to 32 gallons at a time, thus allowing me to bulk age my better wines for at least 2 years before bottling ,,,
Dawg

 

[Robert R]

How would DB work out with honey replacing some of the sugar? Let's say, 5# honey?

 

[KCCam]

How would DB work out with honey replacing some of the sugar? Let's say, 5# honey?

I've read this entire thread (a while ago now), and I can't remember if it's been mentioned. Honestly though, because of the expense for me, it wouldn't stick out in my mind. But if it's cheaper, or equivalent in price for you, go for it. I can't see it having a negative effect. One of the great things about DB is it's so cheap and so quick, and so easy to adjust, there's not many reasons not to try something that strikes your fancy. If you DO try it, make sure you keep us posted!

 

[KCCam]

Time is your best ingredient is time, for bulking, for degassing and for maturing your wine, anyone in a hurry then make skeeter pee to spare your fine wines, i unassay make skitter pee at 25 gallons to 32 gallons at a time, thus allowing me to bulk age my better wines for at least 2 years before bottling ,,,
Dawg

I'm with you 100%, Dawg, but for me, DB is in the same, "quick drinker" category as Skeeter Pee. In fact, I was drinking my last batch before it was bottled... (Overflow for top-ups is good for topping me up too! )

 

[Rembee]

How would DB work out with honey replacing some of the sugar? Let's say, 5# honey?

@Robert R, keep in mind that different honeys will bring different tasting notes to your wine. Ex., orange blossom as opposed to clover honey. Also you want to use a raw honey as opposed to a pastureized honey. You can buy raw honey on Amazon from Florida.
Honey also brings up the SG about .035 points on a hydrometer where sugar will adjust upwards around .046 points. In other words, for every pound of honey to 1 gallon of must you will increase the SG by about .035 points.
1.060 + .035 = 1.095 SG

 

[SassyBoots]

Time is your best ingredient is time, for bulking, for degassing and for maturing your wine, anyone in a hurry then make skeeter pee to spare your fine wines, i unassay make skitter pee at 25 gallons to 32 gallons at a time, thus allowing me to bulk age my better wines for at least 2 years before bottling ,,,
Dawg

I'm picking up some more yeast when I go out here right away and will bring up fruit to thaw overnight....going to start another batch tommorrow. The plan is to bottle and leave alone(i hope lol) at least half this batch and the same for the next...and so on and just keep different recipes going....half to drink, half to age. Kind of age. I take my hat off to you Dawg, I don't think I've ever managed to make any of my wine last that long lol!!!! Maybe now with lots on hand I can do it.

 

[hounddawg]

I'm with you 100%, Dawg, but for me, DB is in the same, "quick drinker" category as Skeeter Pee. In fact, I was drinking my last batch before it was bottled... (Overflow for top-ups is good for topping me up too! )

I HAD attempted to post to the one post above you that you answered to, BUT i guess skeeter pee port has it in for you,, LMFAO
Dawg

 

[Robert R]

@Robert R, keep in mind that different honeys will bring different tasting notes to your wine. Ex., orange blossom as opposed to clover honey. Also you want to use a raw honey as opposed to a pastureized honey. You can buy raw honey on Amazon from Florida.
Honey also brings up the SG about .035 points on a hydrometer where sugar will adjust upwards around .046 points. In other words, for every pound of honey to 1 gallon of must you will increase the SG by about .035 points.
1.060 + .035 = 1.095 SG

I get my honey from the source, my own hives. Wildflower honey, always raw and minimal filtering.

 

[Rembee]

I get my honey from the source, my own hives. Wildflower honey, always raw and minimal filtering.

I am a bee keeper also lol.

 

[hounddawg]

due to heath i don't, but most people don't know just how healthy local raw honey is good for your health...
Dawg

 

[SassyBoots]

I'm with you 100%, Dawg, but for me, DB is in the same, "quick drinker" category as Skeeter Pee. In fact, I was drinking my last batch before it was bottled... (Overflow for top-ups is good for topping me up too! )

Here is a question, a little off topic. Has anyone had DB go back to being a bit cloudy after sweetening it? I just racked tonite and added the conditioner(wanted to try that rather than sugar....oops)and now its on the cloudy side again. My other wines I've made have never done this, and this stuff was crystal clear when I racked it. I'm thinking I might have racked too close to bottom and gotten some of the lees back in there. What is the solution for this? Just sit tight and wait now? If it doesn't look better in a few days can I give it another little bit of Sparkolloid? I probably spelled that wrong lol . I'm just hoping I didn't ruin it by using the conditoner rather than the sugar. Seemed like a good idea at the time.......

 

[KCCam]

Here is a question, a little off topic. Has anyone had DB go back to being a bit cloudy after sweetening it? I just racked tonite and added the conditioner(wanted to try that rather than sugar....oops)and now its on the cloudy side again. My other wines I've made have never done this, and this stuff was crystal clear when I racked it. I'm thinking I might have racked too close to bottom and gotten some of the lees back in there. What is the solution for this? Just sit tight and wait now? If it doesn't look better in a few days can I give it another little bit of Sparkolloid? I probably spelled that wrong lol . I'm just hoping I didn't ruin it by using the conditoner rather than the sugar. Seemed like a good idea at the time.......

I don't think it's off topic. This is a DB thread. Was a change in temperature possibly involved? That could mean something else.

The DB recipe calls for Sparkolloid (you spelled it right), but some (including me) find that even after the wine appears perfectly clear, very, very fine sediment still seems to settle out. This doesn't really sound like what you're describing, but before trying more Sparkolloid, I would try Dual Fine (also known as Super Kleer, Claro K.C., or Kieselsol/Chitosan). Time could certainly (and likely) also fix the problem. I wouldn't use conditioner as a back sweetener. I believe it's simply glycerin with potassium sorbate added to it. IMHO it's better to use straight sugar to back sweeten. It's easier to do bench trials with, and cheaper. Stick to the prescribed dose of sorbate, added separately. Glycerin evidently adds mouth feel. I would only add it if you think it needs it, after tasting, and just use glycerin.

If this was my wine, and I had the time, I would wait it out and see what happens. I accidentally stirred up the lees in my last batch after it cleared nicely. I waited a week. Nothing happened. This is supposed to be a quick drinker, and my wife wanted her kitchen back, so I added Kieselsol/Chitosan and bottled 2 days later. If you're going to drink it yourself, it doesn't really matter too much.

 

[winemanden]

Time. Wait and see before you try anything else. You could make it worse. Have a glass, or two, of something else, that always helps.

 

[SassyBoots]

I don't think it's off topic. This is a DB thread. Was a change in temperature possibly involved? That could mean something else.

The DB recipe calls for Sparkolloid (you spelled it right), but some (including me) find that even after the wine appears perfectly clear, very, very fine sediment still seems to settle out. This doesn't really sound like what you're describing, but before trying more Sparkolloid, I would try Dual Fine (also known as Super Kleer, Claro K.C., or Kieselsol/Chitosan). Time could certainly (and likely) also fix the problem. I wouldn't use conditioner as a back sweetener. I believe it's simply glycerin with potassium sorbate added to it. IMHO it's better to use straight sugar to back sweeten. It's easier to do bench trials with, and cheaper. Stick to the prescribed dose of sorbate, added separately. Glycerin evidently adds mouth feel. I would only add it if you think it needs it, after tasting, and just use glycerin.

If this was my wine, and I had the time, I would wait it out and see what happens. I accidentally stirred up the lees in my last batch after it cleared nicely. I waited a week. Nothing happened. This is supposed to be a quick drinker, and my wife wanted her kitchen back, so I added Kieselsol/Chitosan and bottled 2 days later. If you're going to drink it yourself, it doesn't really matter too much.

Just went and had a peek and you're right, there is a fine ring of sediment back down at the bottom again-so I'll leave it be for a while. I didn't know that about the wine conditioner(never read the label, its just what I've always used)so thanks for mentioning. You're also 100 percent right that if I'm just going to drink it, as long as the taste is where i want it it doesn't matter if it stays a bit hazy. Starting another with Raspberries and Sour Cherries today, and I'll use the sugar when the time comes for sweetening. Here is a copy of that recipe for Rhubarb wine I found. I haven't tried it yet so can't speak to how good it is. I saved it to try because I have a large patch of Rhubarb that never gets used up and I hate waste and love wine lol. Might try this one next week when I have room for another carboy in my work area.