I have 8 carboys in motion ... at $129 a pop, I'm ok with checking my airlocks on a regular basis ... although post-fermentation I'm using vented bungs. In this regard I'm going to remain a Neanderthal!!!
Degas Prior to Racking
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no vacuum indicator, , , when tested I could do 15 inches Hg with it.
my VacuVin mostly sits since the 12 volt vacuum pump/ cork/ tubing setup can pull 22” Hg.
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Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
When folks talk about using "Rubber" bungs, stoppers etc - I hope those folk are making sure that those stoppers are food safe and aren't going to taint you wine with the smell of rubber. If and once that happens, it's there forever, wine ruined. I would never look at a typical hardware store for such things. I value my wine and my time too much for that.
I find the same thing with wine bottles, but it is applied differently to a carboy. The stopper fits over the nipple inside the universal bung, and it's a super tight fit, pretty hard to get on the first time you try. The bung is subsequently in contact with the glass, as opposed to the stopper being in contact with the glass in a wine bottle. I don't think the little fins on the stopper are as efficient as the full surface contact of the universal bung.
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I have read here many times that wine will naturally degas with time. I'm still trying to figure out how that works. I rack to a carboy, minimal headspace, airlock. If the water in the airlock doesn't move, where is the CO2 going?
The gradual degassing is slow enough you'll not notice it. Looking at the airlock during late fermentation you see a lot of activity because the yeast is actively producing alcohol and CO2. In the degassing process there is no replenishment of CO2 so the activity level is much lower.
Fill a carboy to 80%, place the drilled stopper and airlock. Now tilt the carboy and vigorously move it back-n-forth. Look at the airlock, if the wine is degassing, you'll see LOTS of activity for a short while.
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What @winemaker81 said is correct. To be more specific, the CO2 diffuses through the water in your airlock, and is released to the atmosphere. This is because the fraction (i.e., partial pressure) of CO2 in the atmosphere is fairly low (~0.5%).
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Nice explanations. Any guidelines on time to degas?
Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
Also, with very small levels of CO2 release you could have a small air leak in your bung/stopper or where the airlock passes through that allows CO2 to escape without going through the airlock. YOu can try a trick similar to that used to detect natural gas leaks (Without the soap of course) - Put a little water on your stopper and around where your airlock passes through. If you are early on in the degassing you may see some fine bubbling or water movement where there's a leak. As long as you have a positive pressure situation that leak is harmless.
Time to degas is as long as it takes. If you plan on aging your wine at least 6 months you probably won't have to worry about degassing manually.
Time to degas is as long as it takes. If you plan on aging your wine at least 6 months you probably won't have to worry about degassing manually.
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Degassing can occur any time after fermentation completes. After the first racking, I wait until the sediment drops heavily and then compacts a bit before racking again. The more lees compact, the less wine you lose, but leaving the wine on the gross lees will eventually impart off smells and flavors as the grape solids start to decompose. Timing is a trade-off.
I degas as a final step in the second racking, and as I mentioned in a previous post, the faster the CO2 is out of the wine, the faster it will clear. Kits say to degas before fining as the fining agent (typically kieselsol/chitosan) won't work correctly if CO2 is holding sediment in suspension.
EDIT: Fixed numerous typos. Note to self -- proof read better before posting...
I degas as a final step in the second racking, and as I mentioned in a previous post, the faster the CO2 is out of the wine, the faster it will clear. Kits say to degas before fining as the fining agent (typically kieselsol/chitosan) won't work correctly if CO2 is holding sediment in suspension.
EDIT: Fixed numerous typos. Note to self -- proof read better before posting...
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@SLM, I think I misunderstood your question, which I believe is "how long does degassing take?"
@Scooter68's answer is good advice. He's telling you want you should do. I'll expand that by saying what you can do.
The rule of thumb I was taught is 1 week, 3 weeks, 3 months. [I no longer follow this, but it's good general advice.]
Fermentation takes a week, then press. Let the wine clear 3 weeks then rack. Rack again after 3 months and bottle. The total duration is 4 months, and the guys that did this mostly had clear wine. Some stirred well (not at the level the kit instructions say) at the second racking to ensure the K-meta was well mixed, and some splash racked, both of which help with degassing. None did any exceptional degassing and few used fining agents.
As a general guideline this timing worked fairly well, in my recollection ~95% of the time. Only a few wines were not ready to bottle at the 4 month mark. [this doesn't include barrels, as they bottled just before the following year's wine was ready to go into the barrel.]
In fact, it's often possible to bottle at the 3 month mark -- but the earlier the bottling, the greater the risk of dissolved CO2 and/or suspended sediment in the bottle. I've had corks pushed out (no explosions!) and heavier-than-I-like sediment in the bottle.
If you have a need to bottle early? Do it -- it's your wine and your schedule. A lot of us must work our wine making schedule around family and work commitments, e.g., gotta have free time to do pressings & rackings.
But unless you have that pressing need (pun intended), let the wine set another few months. 6 months is a good round number for a new rule-of-thumb.
@Scooter68's answer is good advice. He's telling you want you should do. I'll expand that by saying what you can do.
The rule of thumb I was taught is 1 week, 3 weeks, 3 months. [I no longer follow this, but it's good general advice.]
Fermentation takes a week, then press. Let the wine clear 3 weeks then rack. Rack again after 3 months and bottle. The total duration is 4 months, and the guys that did this mostly had clear wine. Some stirred well (not at the level the kit instructions say) at the second racking to ensure the K-meta was well mixed, and some splash racked, both of which help with degassing. None did any exceptional degassing and few used fining agents.
As a general guideline this timing worked fairly well, in my recollection ~95% of the time. Only a few wines were not ready to bottle at the 4 month mark. [this doesn't include barrels, as they bottled just before the following year's wine was ready to go into the barrel.]
In fact, it's often possible to bottle at the 3 month mark -- but the earlier the bottling, the greater the risk of dissolved CO2 and/or suspended sediment in the bottle. I've had corks pushed out (no explosions!) and heavier-than-I-like sediment in the bottle.
If you have a need to bottle early? Do it -- it's your wine and your schedule. A lot of us must work our wine making schedule around family and work commitments, e.g., gotta have free time to do pressings & rackings.
But unless you have that pressing need (pun intended), let the wine set another few months. 6 months is a good round number for a new rule-of-thumb.
Scooter68
Fruit "Wine" Maker
For me it's 9-12 months aging always and no bottling until the wine is clear. Peach bottled 10 days ago was almost 18 months aging/clearing. Apple Cider was bottled this past week was from August/September not perfectly clear but... It's cider and If folks want a crystal clear hard cider there is plenty of that out there on store shelves in beer bottles. I wanted to get my aging area cleared off a little before spring. I've never had a degassing issue yet.
I've only had 3 disasters/close calls in 5 1/2 years.
1) Lost a batch of strawberry that got the sulfurous smell and would not go away with splash racking, copper wire whipping or reduless - tossed it eventually only 1 gallon thankfully
2) Lost a batch of Pineapple/Mango before it got started - Let it set too long obviously without, enough, K-meta and it spoiled by day 3. Probably should have kept it cooler too.
3) One of my last two batches of Apple cider was tasting blaaah flat - until my clue light went on - checked the pH 3.83. With low ABV and not enough acid until I corrected it, that batch would have probably not lasted much longer. THAT was a save but too close for comfort.
I do not want to be like that US Calvary lieutenant. His commander wrote the following in his fitness report on the young officer: "To his credit he never makes the same mistake twice, but; seems intent on making every mistake once."
I've only had 3 disasters/close calls in 5 1/2 years.
1) Lost a batch of strawberry that got the sulfurous smell and would not go away with splash racking, copper wire whipping or reduless - tossed it eventually only 1 gallon thankfully
2) Lost a batch of Pineapple/Mango before it got started - Let it set too long obviously without, enough, K-meta and it spoiled by day 3. Probably should have kept it cooler too.
3) One of my last two batches of Apple cider was tasting blaaah flat - until my clue light went on - checked the pH 3.83. With low ABV and not enough acid until I corrected it, that batch would have probably not lasted much longer. THAT was a save but too close for comfort.
I do not want to be like that US Calvary lieutenant. His commander wrote the following in his fitness report on the young officer: "To his credit he never makes the same mistake twice, but; seems intent on making every mistake once."
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Thanks for the info, which brings up more questions. What are the adverse effects of CO2 besides pushing corks? I would think a little bit of CO2 would help prevent oxidation in the bottle. Does it affect taste? Is there a way to know when it's gone?
My understanding is that there's always a bit of CO2 in the wine, but (hopefully) not enough to produce ill effects.
In addition to producing your very own volcano, the one adverse effect that comes to mind is the wine will not clear as the CO2 holds particles in suspension.
Enough CO2 will affect taste, like any carbonated beverage. BTW -- if you have CO2, do not bottle in regular screwcaps. They are not designed for pressure and if the pressure exceeds the glass's strength, the bottle can explode. Corked bottles do not present the same problem, as the cork will blow -- unless you use a cork cage to hold it on. Any time a wine is sparkling, use a beer or champagne bottle as they are designed for the pressure.
The easiest ways I know to detect excess CO2 is to stir the wine vigorously for 10 seconds -- it will foam a lot if there is excess CO2. Or in a jug/carboy 90% full with an airlock on top, give it a hard shake or 3 -- this will produce a lot of activity in the airlock.
* I would not worry about pushing a cork on a wine which was finished fermenting. The gas will be in equilibrium with the winery conditions (room temperature?) so a majority of the CO2 will have escaped.
* Having CO2 and O2 in a corked bottle will still allow the oxygen to do its damage, ,, these gases are not exclusive of each other. ,,, However if you have active gas release as through an air lock it will tend to flush the head space which will reduce the potential for oxidation in the carboy.
* CO2 will make a wine taste more acidic and if you ran numbers as is/ after you can measure the shift. CO2 also contributes bitter notes which help balance sweet.
* I have a small vacuum on the bench, my read is that when it isn’t obvious I can usually pull more out with 15 inches Hg or more. I see light bubble formation in many commercial/ smaller wineries.
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if it takes more than 5 inches Hg (equal to a home vacuum cleaner) to get active bubbles I would ignore it.
* heat also will pull CO2 out
* Having CO2 and O2 in a corked bottle will still allow the oxygen to do its damage, ,, these gases are not exclusive of each other. ,,, However if you have active gas release as through an air lock it will tend to flush the head space which will reduce the potential for oxidation in the carboy.
* CO2 will make a wine taste more acidic and if you ran numbers as is/ after you can measure the shift. CO2 also contributes bitter notes which help balance sweet.
* I have a small vacuum on the bench, my read is that when it isn’t obvious I can usually pull more out with 15 inches Hg or more. I see light bubble formation in many commercial/ smaller wineries.
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if it takes more than 5 inches Hg (equal to a home vacuum cleaner) to get active bubbles I would ignore it.
* heat also will pull CO2 out
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First of all, thank you for posting photos of how to put things together, 
, this has gotten me looking through parts on how I could use the VacuVin check valve to degas.
? ? I am guessing the 1960 cars had that part , , , , any ideas about a vacuum switch ? .
I should let this sit for a week to see how tight the VacuVincheck valve is. One last note, the check valve in Steve’s head space eliminator will hold a higher vacuum, so far the best VacuVin has pulled is 17 inches Hg.
, this has gotten me looking through parts on how I could use the VacuVin check valve to degas.This is what I came up with. I can pull a vacuum with my cheap 12 volt pump from Amazon,, use a bung to funnel onto the top of a VacuVin and connect the inside diameter with a hardware store nylon union to a standard single hole bung. . . . I would still like to put a vacuum switch in the system to turn the pump on and off
? ? I am guessing the 1960 cars had that part , , , , any ideas about a vacuum switch ? .
I should let this sit for a week to see how tight the VacuVincheck valve is. One last note, the check valve in Steve’s head space eliminator will hold a higher vacuum, so far the best VacuVin has pulled is 17 inches Hg.
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RickD
Senior Member
I have two different manufacturer's versions of the S-shaped airlocks. FWIW, I can confirm that the VacuVin stoppers fit the top ends of both airlocks nicely, and will pull a heckuva vacuum (around 17" ?) on a 1 gallon jug. I am so gonna try this. Will try my home made whip on the 1 gallon carboy prior to vacuum.
I do app. 1.2 gallon batches. This is 750ml of blackberry wine I've been experimenting with. I started out degassing with the Vacuvin. It worked very well, especially in the beginning of the process. I couldn't help but think that if I could just pull a little more vacuum, I could make quick work of this. Pulled out the Mityvac. When it hit just under 20" it appeared to pick up where the Vacuvin had left off in terms of bubbling (I have no way of directly measuring the vacuum on the Vacuvin). A couple more minutes at about 25" and they were almost- but not quite, gone. I could never get them to disappear completely, but Im going to try again later today.
What is most interesting to me is that when I started degassing, the level of the wine was slightly above the TOP of the blue tape. I may have lost a teaspoon getting a hydrometer sample. No clue where the rest went. If this wine was a metallic material I would say that the decrease in volume could be due to a change in crystal lattice structure.
stickman
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@Rice_Guy you're probably thinking of a vacuum advance diaphragm like the one below; you would have to rig up your own micro switch.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-distributor-vacuum-advance-v282/20100535-p
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-distributor-vacuum-advance-v282/20100535-p
