Degassing in carboy with whip

[WildernessMedic]

Hi. Confused on the correct way to do this. In one video a guy said it can take up to an hour in a carboy, and another video from northern brewer set 10 to 15 seconds. In the second video he spun it up one time and called it good.

If it needs to be degassed will it throw bubbles no matter what part you’re stirring? If the bent section is halfway down no bubbles come up. If I do it near the surface a ton come out, but I’m not sure if I’m just accidentally whipping air into it.

 

[CaptainPolish]

I would also like insight into this. You are supposed to de gas before mlf right? I would also assume de gassing makes the wine more vulnerable? which is why the low head space?

 

[WildernessMedic]

I would also like insight into this. You are supposed to de gas before mlf right? I would also assume de gassing makes the wine more vulnerable? which is why the low head space?

I imagine so which is why I stopped. Hope I didn’t just aerate 40 pounds of hand picked elderberry wine…

 

[CaptainPolish]

I know they say bulk aging will de gas naturally. You might be fine? when I do hydrometer readings the gas always seems to be mostly located in the top section of the graduated cylinder. Someone here will have an answer lol

 

[WildernessMedic]

I know they say bulk aging will de gas naturally. You might be fine? when I do hydrometer readings the gas always seems to be mostly located in the top section of the graduated cylinder. Someone here will have an answer lol

It’s two months old and completely done with fermentation. It tasted gassy.

Interesting you say it’s at the top. My whip has a stopper on it and it seems like more gas is coming up than I could be introducing from the headspace. But when I stir it a few inches lower no bubbles come up. I’d think the gas would be evenly distributed in the liquid

 

[BigDaveK]

Two months isn't long enough.

Most of my wines will be de-gassed at 5-6 months but some are still gassy at 10 months. All stored under the same conditions so it seems there are other factors involved.

Some members use a vacuum to de-gas. I use a vacuvin for my open bottles. If you have one you could test for gas buy putting a small amount in a 375 ml bottle and drawing a vacuum. Bubbles show up quick.

More bubbles/gas at the top may be an illusion. A few gas molecules start at the bottom and hook up with their buddies on the way up, bubbles increasing in size. Ever watch the bubbles in a carbonated drink?

 

[winemaker81]

The Northern Brewer video where the guy said to degas for an hour is possibly the worst winemaking advice I've seen, and that's saying a lot.

My general process is at the first racking post-fermentation, when I'm eliminating gross lees (fruit solids), after racking I add K-meta and stir for 1 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction after 30 seconds. I stir vigorously to generate a small vortex. Then I rack into a secondary container.

This does not eliminate all CO2, and it's not intended to. What is does is expel a lot of CO2 and jump-start the degassing process. The wine will degas over the following weeks and possibly months. By the 3 month mark it's highly likely the wine will be degassed sufficiently for bottling, if making a quicker drinking wine.

Never count on activity in the airlock as an indicator. Temperature and barometric changes can have an effect.

Also, if the wine is whipped sufficiently hard, it will produce bubbles regardless if there is CO2 in it or not.

 

[WildernessMedic]

Two months isn't long enough.

Most of my wines will be de-gassed at 5-6 months but some are still gassy at 10 months. All stored under the same conditions so it seems there are other factors involved.

Some members use a vacuum to de-gas. I use a vacuvin for my open bottles. If you have one you could test for gas buy putting a small amount in a 375 ml bottle and drawing a vacuum. Bubbles show up quick.

More bubbles/gas at the top may be an illusion. A few gas molecules start at the bottom and hook up with their buddies on the way up, bubbles increasing in size. Ever watch the bubbles in a carbonated drink?

Two months isn’t long enough for me to start degassing….?

No, when I stir midway down, stop and wait, no bubbles ever come up. When I stir near the top it foams up very quick

Does this just mean I’m introducing air and it’s properly degassed?

 

[WildernessMedic]

The Northern Brewer video where the guy said to degas for an hour is possibly the worst winemaking advice I've seen, and that's saying a lot.

My general process is at the first racking post-fermentation, when I'm eliminating gross lees (fruit solids), after racking I add K-meta and stir for 1 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction after 30 seconds. I stir vigorously to generate a small vortex. Then I rack into a secondary container.

This does not eliminate all CO2, and it's not intended to. What is does is expel a lot of CO2 and jump-start the degassing process. The wine will degas over the following weeks and possibly months. By the 3 month mark it's highly likely the wine will be degassed sufficiently for bottling, if making a quicker drinking wine.

Never count on activity in the airlock as an indicator. Temperature and barometric changes can have an effect.

Also, if the wine is whipped sufficiently hard, it will produce bubbles regardless if there is CO2 in it or not.

Oops replied before seeing new replies.

Sounds like I should stop messing with it. It’s been finished with fermentation and bulk aging for two months now with no airlock activity. I don’t plan on bottling for at least another four months so I should probably just leave it alone and wait?

 

[winemaker81]

Sounds like I should stop messing with it. It’s been finished with fermentation and bulk aging for two months now with no airlock activity. I don’t plan on bottling for at least another four months so I should probably just leave it alone and wait?

If you've already stirred it, just give it time.

Patience, Grasshopper ...

 

[WildernessMedic]

If you've already stirred it, just give it time.

Patience, Grasshopper ...

Oh patience isn’t a problem. I didn’t even want to be bothered to degass it for 30 minutes haha. Just want to make sure I’m doing it right. Thanks.

 

[bstnh1]

Hi. Confused on the correct way to do this. In one video a guy said it can take up to an hour in a carboy, and another video from northern brewer set 10 to 15 seconds. In the second video he spun it up one time and called it good.

If it needs to be degassed will it throw bubbles no matter what part you’re stirring? If the bent section is halfway down no bubbles come up. If I do it near the surface a ton come out, but I’m not sure if I’m just accidentally whipping air into it.

I have NEVER degassed for an hour or close to it. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes, intermittently with a Mix-Stir.

 

[Rocky]

Also, if the wine is whipped sufficiently hard, it will produce bubbles regardless if there is CO2 in it or not.

Exactly!

When moving my wines to a secondary container, usually a carboy, I give them a good stir of about 30 seconds. I age my reds a minimum of 1 year in bulk and my whites a minimum of 6 months in bulk. By this time, CO2 is not an issue.

 

[Mike Parisi]

When I rack into the carboy, I splash rack. That seems to eliminate a lot of C02. Then I use the drill-mounted whip for 2-3 minutes, changing direction every 30 seconds. I have only been making kits for just over 3 years and have never had a problem with gas after bottling.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I would also assume de gassing makes the wine more vulnerable? which is why the low head space?

* degassing increases the risk of infection and let’s one pack a high oxygen headspace which means acetaldehyde.
* degassing is temperature related, it happens naturally as the wine warms up. If you have the highest temp the wine will see two months will work. In cool season degassing is minimal and nine months might be good.
* degassing is a function of the partial pressure of the gas in the head space. One can pull a vacuum and cause gas to boil out. This is time related and never seems to finish without some mixing time. Vacuum works in winter too.
*. I look at CO2 as protective and intentionally let it there till I bottle

 

[winemaker81]

degassing increases the risk of infection and let’s one pack a high oxygen headspace which means acetaldehyde.

It depends on when and how. When I degas, it's shortly after fermentation is complete and the wine is outgassing heavily. During the stir the wine is outgassing so much O2 isn't getting near the wine, and it's racked into a carboy with minimal headspace shortly after. Besides, the short duration stir I use leaves a lot of CO2 in the wine, so the minimal headspace fills with CO2. The typical 3-10 minute stir recommended by kit vendors also does not seem to produce a problem -- I did 3 minute stirs for well over a decade and had no detectable acetaldehyde problems.

Besides, adding K-meta addresses any residual O2, which is among the reasons I don't bother trying to fine-tune K-meta additions.

An extended stir later in bulk aging? Yeah, I can see where there's a potential problem.

 

[wineview]

The Northern Brewer video where the guy said to degas for an hour is possibly the worst winemaking advice I've seen, and that's saying a lot.

My general process is at the first racking post-fermentation, when I'm eliminating gross lees (fruit solids), after racking I add K-meta and stir for 1 minute with a drill-mounted stirring rod, changing direction after 30 seconds. I stir vigorously to generate a small vortex. Then I rack into a secondary container.

This does not eliminate all CO2, and it's not intended to. What is does is expel a lot of CO2 and jump-start the degassing process. The wine will degas over the following weeks and possibly months. By the 3 month mark it's highly likely the wine will be degassed sufficiently for bottling, if making a quicker drinking wine.

Never count on activity in the airlock as an indicator. Temperature and barometric changes can have an effect.

Also, if the wine is whipped sufficiently hard, it will produce bubbles regardless if there is CO2 in it or not.

I degass after primary and when the wine is still warm. If it’s cold, I don’t think degassing with a drill is effective. Never had a problem.

 

[CaptainPolish]

@Rice_Guy "* degassing is temperature related, it happens naturally as the wine warms up. If you have the highest temp the wine will see two months will work. In cool season degassing is minimal and nine months might be good."

I have my brews in a temperature controlled climate currently, air temp is 64*F, would heat stabilizing them at some point be a good or bad idea?

@winemaker81 , I have also been going with the keep co2, add k-meta route. What is your take on swirling for degassing? obviously in a carboy that would be more work or not possible, but I am using strictly 1 gal jugs at the moment. I'm hoping I did not make a mistake, but yesterday I put 18 gal jugs to MLF, only 3 showed signs of high gas, reds, merlot and Cab sav. Those I spent more time degassing by swirling after racking, then oak, topped, and M Bacteria, bung and airlock.

 

[winemaker81]

I have also been going with the keep co2, add k-meta route. What is your take on swirling for degassing?

I haven't tried it, but without some headspace in which the wine to slosh, I don't expect it to do much.

 

[winemanden]

If you're not sure whether your wine needs de-gassing, just drop a pinch of sugar or acid into the carboy. If there's gas in the wine, it will fizz.
Just a small pinch, mind you, or you may have a volcano.