Degassing

[davidj77]

I just started learning to make wine. My first attempt was was a small batch of pineapple wine made from fresh pineapple and I have to admit it turned out very good. However, my experience with making peach wine maybe not so good. here's what happened; I let it ferment for about 4 days strained it put it in a glass bottle for about another week or so siphoning it out into a new bottle and I made sure I stopped siphoning when it was about an inch and a half to 2 inches from the bottom so it did not to pick up sediment. I then racked it again. I finally got all the sediment out and I let it sit in a new clean glass jug. I sampled it and I found it needs a little touch of sweetness so I made a syrup of white sugar and water and I was very very careful not to oversweeten. However, I seem to have over sweetened it at least I thought so. I let it sit again for about a week or so and tasted it again and it tasted perfect! Now here is the problem: I can't Degas it, it's been over 2 weeks and I still keep getting gas. I shake up and stir the bottle of wine but gas keeps getting released. it just doesn't seem to want to stop degassing. So what did I do wrong besides everything?

 

[sour_grapes]

I believe that you are getting gas from renewed fermentation. When you added sugar, you gave additional food for the yeast. So they are now back to fermenting, and producing gas.

Prior to adding sugar, you need to "stabilize" the wine. This means adding potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite to inhibit additional fermentation.

 

[globalnavigator]

I have nowhere near the experience many people on thus site have, but I can tell you that for degassing there are a few popular thoughts/methods. Time will degas naturally. If you don't want to wait weeks or months for that to happen, you can whip the wine with a drill attachment, use a vacuum pump, or splash rack it. Also, many people say that temperature is important and that 75 degrees and higher helps degas.

 

[mainshipfred]

For the most part we all have our preferences and taste so a couple things. First even though you got the initial sediment out it was more than likely still fermenting, even after the additional week after siphoning it. If you didn't add sorbate or k-meta prior to adding the sugar it probably started fermenting again. I'll quite now since @sour_grapes beat me to it.

 

[davidj77]

I believe that you are getting gas from renewed fermentation. When you added sugar, you gave additional food for the yeast. So they are now back to fermenting, and producing gas.

Prior to adding sugar, you need to "stabilize" the wine. This means adding potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite to inhibit additional fermentation.

Thanks for your information I appreciate it I had a feeling that may have been the problem lol! I think the next time I'm just going to have maybe a little extra sugar when I start the fermentation process with the fruit and not any more sugar added later on make things simpler!

 

[davidj77]

I have nowhere near the experience many people on thus site have, but I can tell you that for degassing there are a few popular thoughts/methods. Time will degas naturally. If you don't want to wait weeks or months for that to happen, you can whip the wine with a drill attachment, use a vacuum pump, or splash rack it. Also, many people say that temperature is important and that 75 degrees and higher helps degas.

Thanks for your help and info I'm just going to let it sit for now. I'm not going to do any more backsweetening. When I made the pineapple wine it came out just fine I think perhaps peaches may be a little bit more difficult to work with my next attempt is going to be plum wine I'll get it right one of these days!

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks for your information I appreciate it I had a feeling that may have been the problem lol! I think the next time I'm just going to have maybe a little extra sugar when I start the fermentation process with the fruit and not any more sugar added later on make things simpler!

It doesn't really work that way for a homewinemaker. Your best solution is to (1) choose the amount of sugar (i.e., the SG) to give the amount of ABV you want; (2) let it ferment all the way to dry; (3) stabilize as described above; (4) backsweeten to taste.

 

[mainshipfred]

I think you'll find we, as home winemakers, can't stop fermentation easily. The only way I'm aware of is to put it the refrigerator. If you add more sugar it will still want to ferment till dry, just giving you a higher alcohol content.

 

[davidj77]

I think you'll find we, as home winemakers, can't stop fermentation easily. The only way I'm aware of is to put it the refrigerator. If you add more sugar it will still want to ferment till dry, just giving you a higher alcohol content.

Yes I believe you're right on that it's not easy to stop fermentation. I have to find myself a brewer supply store to get those chemicals I need to add and then try to figure out how much to add...thanks

 

[heatherd]

Yes I believe you're right on that it's not easy to stop fermentation. I have to find myself a brewer supply store to get those chemicals I need to add and then try to figure out how much to add...thanks

We've all been there and learned from it.

Test with a hydrometer at the beginning and end of fermentation, so that you're sure its done at around 0.995 or less. Starting gravity should be between 1.070 and 1.100. Then stabilize with potassium metabisulfite, add potassium sorbate prior to adding more sugar. Follow this process to get reliable results without refermentation and bottle bombs.

The chemicals have amounts on their labels about how much to add, so you can just do that amount.

I buy my chemicals online from Label Peelers:
-Ksorbate: Potassium Sorbate 1 lb, Brand: LD Carlson (labelpeelers.com)
-Kmeta: Potassium Metabisulfite 1 lb, Brand: LD Carlson (labelpeelers.com)
-Wine yeast: Wine Yeast | Label Peelers Beer and Wine Making Supply
-All other additives like tartaric acid or pectic enzyme: Additives | Label Peelers Beer and Wine Making Supply

Yeasts that are good for fruit wines are:
-Montrachet: Red Star Montrachet Yeast – Midwest Supplies
-Red Star Cotes Des Blancs: Red Star Cote des Blancs
-Red Star Premier Rouge: Red Star Premier Rouge
-Red Star Pasteur Blanc: Red Star Premier Blanc Wine Yeast

 

[davidj77]

We've all been there and learned from it.

Test with a hydrometer at the beginning and end of fermentation, so that you're sure its done at around 0.995 or less. Starting gravity should be between 1.070 and 1.100. Then stabilize with potassium metabisulfite, add potassium sorbate prior to adding more sugar. Follow this process to get reliable results without refermentation and bottle bombs.

The chemicals have amounts on their labels about how much to add, so you can just do that amount.

I buy my chemicals online from Label Peelers:
-Ksorbate: Potassium Sorbate 1 lb, Brand: LD Carlson (labelpeelers.com)
-Kmeta: Potassium Metabisulfite 1 lb, Brand: LD Carlson (labelpeelers.com)
-Wine yeast: Wine Yeast | Label Peelers Beer and Wine Making Supply
-All other additives like tartaric acid or pectic enzyme: Additives | Label Peelers Beer and Wine Making Supply

Yeasts that are good for fruit wines are:
-Montrachet: Red Star Montrachet Yeast – Midwest Supplies
-Red Star Cotes Des Blancs: Red Star Cote des Blancs
-Red Star Premier Rouge: Red Star Premier Rouge
-Red Star Pasteur Blanc: Red Star Premier Blanc Wine Yeast

Thanks for all your advice. By the way, when I made the pineapple and the peach wine, I used regular bread yeast..it worked quite well. The pineapple wine had a strong kick and way over the 10 to %11 that supposedly is the highest you can get with bread yeast. I will get the proper yeast next time.

 

[mikewatkins727]

One thing not mentioned so far for the beginning home winemaker is to stock up a large supply of PATIENCE. It is extremely hard to come by for the beginner.

 

[Steve Wargo]

I just started learning to make wine. My first attempt was was a small batch of pineapple wine made from fresh pineapple and I have to admit it turned out very good. However, my experience with making peach wine maybe not so good. here's what happened; I let it ferment for about 4 days strained it put it in a glass bottle for about another week or so siphoning it out into a new bottle and I made sure I stopped siphoning when it was about an inch and a half to 2 inches from the bottom so it did not to pick up sediment. I then racked it again. I finally got all the sediment out and I let it sit in a new clean glass jug. I sampled it and I found it needs a little touch of sweetness so I made a syrup of white sugar and water and I was very very careful not to oversweeten. However, I seem to have over sweetened it at least I thought so. I let it sit again for about a week or so and tasted it again and it tasted perfect! Now here is the problem: I can't Degas it, it's been over 2 weeks and I still keep getting gas. I shake up and stir the bottle of wine but gas keeps getting released. it just doesn't seem to want to stop degassing. So what did I do wrong besides everything?

A few people have mentioned that adding sugar restarted the wine's fermentation process. I agree. The yeast used during primary fermentation will determine how long fermentation will continue before you can again degas your wine. Most likely, many here have experienced a restart of fermentation for one reason or another. An example: I'd already bottled a small batch of wine when I noticed small bubbles in the bottle, fermentation restarted. The wine was fizzy and tasted good. I was using screw cap bottles. I could let off some of the pressure that built up in the few bottles made from the 1-gallon batch. I refrigerated the bottles for a couple of days. I called it sparkling wine and served it cold. It still had some sweetness, was bubbly and everyone liked it. If you are trying to sweeten your wine there are a couple of different directions you can take. 1.) Step feed sugar until your wine surpasses the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. 2.) Let it finish fermentation. Taste it, wait for it to clear. Then rack, and if more sugar is required, add K-Meta and Sorbate beforehand to disable the yeast from restarting fermentation when you add sugar.

 

[winemaker81]

An example: I'd already bottled a small batch of wine when I noticed small bubbles in the bottle, fermentation restarted. The wine was fizzy and tasted good. I was using screw cap bottles. I could let off some of the pressure that built up in the few bottles made from the 1-gallon batch. I refrigerated the bottles for a couple of days.

Emphasis mine. Developing pressure in bottles not designed for pressure is dangerous, as if the pressure exceeds the strength of the glass, the bottle can explode.

Corks in regular wine bottles will blow if the pressure builds too much, which makes a mess but isn't dangerous. For anything sparkling, use bottles designed for it, e.g., beer or champagne bottles.

BTW - champagne bottles normally accept crown caps, so the plastic t-tops are not necessary. In Méthode Champenoise, the traditional champagne producing method, the bottles are crown capped before riddling, and are corked after disgorging. There is no reason, other than appearance, to crown cap the bottles regardless of method used to sparkle the wine.

 

[Steve Wargo]

Emphasis mine. Developing pressure in bottles not designed for pressure is dangerous, as if the pressure exceeds the strength of the glass, the bottle can explode.

Corks in regular wine bottles will blow if the pressure builds too much, which makes a mess but isn't dangerous. For anything sparkling, use bottles designed for it, e.g., beer or champagne bottles.

BTW - champagne bottles normally accept crown caps, so the plastic t-tops are not necessary. In Méthode Champenoise, the traditional champagne producing method, the bottles are crown capped before riddling, and are corked after disgorging. There is no reason, other than appearance, to crown cap the bottles regardless of method used to sparkle the wine.

You are correct with your advice. This is a good topic. First, I wasn't advocating purposely carbonating wine in a wine bottle. No one plans on their wine restarting fermentation in the bottle. Many think that when their FG stalls slightly above 1.000 for several weeks on end that fermentation is complete. Then they can bottle? Maybe, maybe not. In this case, not. My FG for this particular wine batch sat at 1.010 for a long time. The wine actually cleared before I placed it in the bottle. That's how long it sat in the carboy before bottling. I usually use corks, but this was a small batch, and I used twist-on caps. All my wines ferment way below 1.000 and I was watching it. I monitor my homemade wine daily, especially this batch. I caught the restart of fermentation right away. Was it MLF? Maybe? I didn't add any Malolactic bacteria to the batch. Never had the stuff in my house. I put on my safety glasses and wrapped a bottle in a thick towel, and right away released the little pressure there was in the bottle, then the rest of the bottles ( refrigerated them and just to be safe opened them several times a day before consuming them two days later.) If this was a larger batch of wine, I would have poured it back into a carboy and let it finish out, again. I also naturally carbonate beer, cider in brown plastic or glass beer bottles. There was less carbonation in the wine that I mentioned than in a bottle of naturally carbonated beer. Again, I don't advise or advocate purposely carbonating wine in a wine bottle. It's dangerous. and good advice from Winemaker81

 

[winemaker81]

First, I wasn't advocating purposely carbonating wine in a wine bottle.

I didn't think you were. However, for beginners reading this thread, I feared they might misunderstand that you were simply describing a situation, and not realize they can produce an accidental grenade.

Your addition to the story is good for folks reading this, as they get the full description and intent. Your solution was a good one.

I put on my safety glasses and wrapped a bottle in a thick towel, and right away released the little pressure there was in the bottle, then the rest of the bottles ( refrigerated them and just to be safe opened them several times a day before consuming them two days later.)

Excellent choice! Safety first! We don't think of safety as an issue in winemaking, but it is. Some of the cleaning chemicals are toxic. Some chemicals, such as K-meta, can damage the lungs. H2S is flammable so if anyone is unlucky enough to encounter it, use good ventilation. Actually, using good ventilation is a good idea in general.

My son (chemical engineer) said to avoid getting OneStep on my skin -- it's essentially industrial grade H2O2 and while not exactly caustic, it may be irritating to the skin. Rinse it off if splashed.

 

[heatherd]

Thanks for all your advice. By the way, when I made the pineapple and the peach wine, I used regular bread yeast..it worked quite well. The pineapple wine had a strong kick and way over the 10 to %11 that supposedly is the highest you can get with bread yeast. I will get the proper yeast next time.

Good call to get the fruit wine yeast.

 

[davidj77]

A few people have mentioned that adding sugar restarted the wine's fermentation process. I agree. The yeast used during primary fermentation will determine how long fermentation will continue before you can again degas your wine. Most likely, many here have experienced a restart of fermentation for one reason or another. An example: I'd already bottled a small batch of wine when I noticed small bubbles in the bottle, fermentation restarted. The wine was fizzy and tasted good. I was using screw cap bottles. I could let off some of the pressure that built up in the few bottles made from the 1-gallon batch. I refrigerated the bottles for a couple of days. I called it sparkling wine and served it cold. It still had some sweetness, was bubbly and everyone liked it. If you are trying to sweeten your wine there are a couple of different directions you can take. 1.) Step feed sugar until your wine surpasses the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. 2.) Let it finish fermentation. Taste it, wait for it to clear. Then rack, and if more sugar is required, add K-Meta and Sorbate beforehand to disable the yeast from restarting fermentation when you add sugar.

Thanks!

 

[Mango Madness]

I believe that you are getting gas from renewed fermentation. When you added sugar, you gave additional food for the yeast. So they are now back to fermenting, and producing gas.

Prior to adding sugar, you need to "stabilize" the wine. This means adding potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite to inhibit additional fermentation.

Is it ok to put the metabisulfite in when you start the brew?

 

[winemaker81]

Is it ok to put the metabisulfite in when you start the brew?

It's a common practice to treat the must with K-meta, then wait 24 hours before pitching yeast. SO2 will kill or stunt many wild yeast and microorganisms, so this reduces the likelihood of unwanted things growing.