Did I Screw Up? - First Year Winter Pruning

[Stevie Newfoundland]

Hey guys,

This may be simple, and I really thought I understood what I was doing but...

Last spring I received a couple of L'Acadie Blanc vines, a white hybrid grape developed in Canada, that's mainly grown in Nova Scotia. They both grew great in the 5 gallon buckets I placed them in, reaching the top of these 5 foot (or so) poles I had them climb. I'm still debating where their permanent home will be. They went dormant during winter, and they're alive and well.

I've read and watched videos of how you prune them during the FIRST winter, cutting them back to 3 to 4 nodes/buds, leaving them maybe a foot or so off the ground. A week or so back I did that... but while cutting I began to question if this was right? I cut them both down to one main "trunk" and removed any addition branches. In my panic, I left them maybe about 2 feet (this being well more than just 3 to 4 nodes/buds). I can always take more off if need be before spring; sure ya knows!
Today, as I was trying to learn more about future training and trellising, to my horror I realized the different fellas in the videos were leaving their vines (first winter pruning) a main trunk of say 4 feet or so, and training it to the trellis! GREAT! So I'm here wondering what the Hell did I do!? I continue to find conflicting information... I don't know if what I did was brutal, good, ok, or awesome. I should of asked here first.

On a side note I have 2 "green" cutting clones of these L'Acadies and I'm also attempting to clone some of the hardwood cuttings (which may be another train wreck). I also have another white hybrid, New York Muscat, and the vinifera Siegerrebe on the way this spring. I'm debating adding a red hybrid, either Leon Millot or Marechal Foch to my lineup.

Thank you so much for reading my novella. Hopefully no IQ points were lost in the reading.

- Stevie

 

[Hazelemere]

You're ok

year 1 - keep 3 to 4 buds on a shoot maybe a foot long to focus on root growth

year 2 - keep the two thickest and longest shoots growing vertically or semi-vertically to try to get at least one cane shoot as thick as a pencil or even thicker to focus on root growth and the development of a straight trunk.

year 3 - arc the longest shoot vertically to 2 ft off of the ground and then it as close to horizontal as you can on 12 gauge galvanized wire as part of a wire trellis.

 

[Stevie Newfoundland]

Phew, thanks Hazelemere!!

I'm really happy to read this (I'll jot this down in my notes). I'll let my brother know now the once since I've got him drove.

P.s. I have searched your posts many times over the last year while surfing this forum. I love how you got into growing grapes, and I enjoyed reading about the varieties you tried in Canada over the years. I purchased a couple Siegerrebe based off your posts, since I wanted to try a vinifera along with my hybrids.

Happy Valentine's Day!
- Stevie

 

[Hazelemere]

Phew, thanks Hazelemere!!

I'm really happy to read this (I'll jot this down in my notes). I'll let my brother know now the once since I've got him drove.

P.s. I have searched your posts many times over the last year while surfing this forum. I love how you got into growing grapes, and I enjoyed reading about the varieties you tried in Canada over the years. I purchased a couple Siegerrebe based off your posts, since I wanted to try a vinifera along with my hybrids.

Happy Valentine's Day!
- Stevie

what hybrids do you grow and where do you live?

 

[Stevie Newfoundland]

what hybrids do you grow and where do you live?

As of now it is just the L'Acadie Blanc, but I have New York Muscat coming the spring with the Siegerrebe. I live in Newfoundland, and those two hybrids do well in Nova Scotia so they might do ok here (although that's questionable with my care). I don't have a vineyard or nothing, this is just hobby backyard growing with a few vines. Trial and error.

 

[Hazelemere]

As of now it is just the L'Acadie Blanc, but I have New York Muscat coming the spring with the Siegerrebe. I live in Newfoundland, and those two hybrids do well in Nova Scotia so they might do ok here (although that's questionable with my care). I don't have a vineyard or nothing, this is just hobby backyard growing with a few vines. Trial and error.

I spent 2 weeks in Newfoundland starting in Port a Basque and ending in St Johns

I tasted really good late season raspberries in August. If I was you I'd focus on the best Newfie raspberries, tayberries, blackberries, blueberries and salmonberries that I could grow along with apples and pears, possibly black currants. You don't have a great climate for grapes but have a good climate for excellent late season raspberries. Look at my posts on organic homegrown raspberry wines. Look for chokecherries or saskatoon berries anywhere on the island.

 

[Stevie Newfoundland]

I spent 2 weeks in Newfoundland starting in Port a Basque and ending in St Johns

I tasted really good late season raspberries in August. If I was you I'd focus on the best Newfie raspberries, tayberries, blackberries, blueberries and salmonberries that I could grow along with apples and pears, possibly black currants. You don't have a great climate for grapes but have a good climate for excellent late season raspberries. Look at my posts on organic homegrown raspberry wines. Look for chokecherries or saskatoon berries anywhere on the island.

That's awesome! I'm glad you got to experience Newfoundland!

Newfoundland has amazing berries; our wild blueberries are the best! My family has blueberry, lingonberry (what we call "partridge berries" here in Nfld) and saskatoons (what we call "chuckleypears" in Newfoundland) fields surrounding the family cabin. We have some raspberries and blackcurrants growing as well - something I do need to expand on. I will check out your posts on organic homegrown raspberry wines.

Our climate is really iffy for grapes, I've been on the fence about this "passion project". I've been seeing what hybrids do well in Nova Scotia, and I'm hoping I can pull this off. Fingers crossed!!

 

[Obbnw]

You're ok

year 1 - keep 3 to 4 buds on a shoot maybe a foot long to focus on root growth

year 2 - keep the two thickest and longest shoots growing vertically or semi-vertically to try to get at least one cane shoot as thick as a pencil or even thicker to focus on root growth and the development of a straight trunk.

year 3 - arc the longest shoot vertically to 2 ft off of the ground and then it as close to horizontal as you can on 12 gauge galvanized wire as part of a wire trellis.

Plus, you can mess up and do the exact wrong thing but the grapes will recover.
You may not get the production or look you wanted, but next year you can try again.

 

[Rice_Guy]

There are several different pruning schemes, example:

“Tree form/ about one meter high”
One thing I observe is that the plants which have less leaf/ more severe pruning, ,, have less fruit.

 

[Stevie Newfoundland]

Plus, you can mess up and do the exact wrong thing but the grapes will recover.
You may not get the production or look you wanted, but next year you can try again.

That's very reassuring! Thanks.
So to make sure I get this right... first year winter dormancy, after growing all summer/fall, cut them to about a foot or so from the soil?

There are several different pruning schemes, example:
View attachment 110279
“Tree form/ about one meter high”
One thing I observe is that the plants which have less leaf/ more severe pruning, ,, have less fruit.

I see, I see...
From what I gather, I will have to eventually have them higher off the ground to help with airflow. The higher trunk will also minimize moisture (splash?) from the soil to combat mildews? I feel like I read this advice here before... but not sure, nor sure if it is correct? Where I live is a foggy humid place... a horrible place to grow grapes - BUT, I want to try.

 

[Hazelemere]

That's awesome! I'm glad you got to experience Newfoundland!

Newfoundland has amazing berries; our wild blueberries are the best! My family has blueberry, lingonberry (what we call "partridge berries" here in Nfld) and saskatoons (what we call "chuckleypears" in Newfoundland) fields surrounding the family cabin. We have some raspberries and blackcurrants growing as well - something I do need to expand on. I will check out your posts on organic homegrown raspberry wines.

Our climate is really iffy for grapes, I've been on the fence about this "passion project". I've been seeing what hybrids do well in Nova Scotia, and I'm hoping I can pull this off. Fingers crossed!!

search my posts on the word Framboise (french word for raspberries). So you've answered your own question i.e. focus on making Newfoundland berry wines alone or in combos. Nova Scotia is warmer than Newfoundland. The advantage of Newfoundland is that you can grow slow developing late season berries e.g. I pick raspberries in July. Your's ripen in August. So focus on berries IMHO. If you can grow really good apples (e.g. Russets) or pears (e.g. Bosc type or Anjous) then grow those. I checked sugar content of Newfoundland grapes in best sites which indicate 14-16% which is too low for wine. Unless you can reach 18% with Siegerrebe or Acadie Blanc then grapegrowing for wine is a waste of time unless you can get extra heat into the vines e.g. steep south slope, warm wall or possibly a plastic canopy (e.g. thick mylar) over the vines to get a greenhouse effect. You can combine mylar and the wall. Mylar is available from home depot for waterproofing a basement. If you buy Mylar get thick mylar so it doesn't tear. You can take it down after harvest and put it back in the spring. You can also get a greenhouse effect by growing grapes in a plastic tunnel vented on the north and south ends. This should get you to at least 18% sugar

https://www.uaex.uada.edu/media-resources/news/2019/october2019/1018_Grape_High_Tunnel_Garcia.aspx

 

[Stevie Newfoundland]

search my posts on the word Framboise (french word for raspberries). So you've answered your own question i.e. focus on making Newfoundland berry wines alone or in combos. Nova Scotia is warmer than Newfoundland. The advantage of Newfoundland is that you can grow slow developing late season berries e.g. I pick raspberries in July. Your's ripen in August. So focus on berries IMHO. If you can grow really good apples (e.g. Russets) or pears (e.g. Bosc type or Anjous) then grow those.

Thanks again Hazelemere! I'll look into "Framboise" now the weekend, and make sure to keep notes. I'm also going to check out "Cassis". My brother is also very intrigued by brewing various concoctions, so this will be great conversation with him.
Most of our berries are late season, August/September, and our ligonberry is picked late October into November!
In time I really do want to invest in a few apple varieties that can be multi-use (cider, eating/baking); it is on the bucket list for sure.

As for Nova Scotia being warmer than Newfoundland, I'm sure that is true, but parts of Newfoundland can be pretty warm. I'm in a 5b/6a zone, and hoping the magic of a micro-climate will help me out.

 

[wood1954]

I recently pruned my itasca back to 3 or 4 buds because it’s the right thing to do, but it sure seemed counter intuitive. It was kind of painful.

 

[Hazelemere]

I recently pruned my itasca back to 3 or 4 buds because it’s the right thing to do, but it sure seemed counter intuitive. It was kind of painful.

how old are your Itasca in the ground?

 

[wood1954]

I planted them last May

 

[Charles DeVier]

"I recently pruned my itasca back to 3 or 4 buds because it’s the right thing to do"
Why??
The goal for a first year grape plant is to grow to the top of the trellis wire. I do not prune until dormancy and then only side shoots. The main leader is allowed to grow as fast as possible. If there is a second shot/branch that is competing too much, I will pinch off the growing tip. This way, the plant has maximum leaves to grow the most roots.

 

[ChuckD]

"I recently pruned my itasca back to 3 or 4 buds because it’s the right thing to do"
Why??
The goal for a first year grape plant is to grow to the top of the trellis wire. I do not prune until dormancy and then only side shoots. The main leader is allowed to grow as fast as possible. If there is a second shot/branch that is competing too much, I will pinch off the growing tip. This way, the plant has maximum leaves to grow the most roots.

That’s what the nursery said to do with my vines too. Let them grow what they want the first year then prune back to the best shoot with only four buds. At the end of the second year pick the best of those and cut off the others… save two if double-trunk training. I think it’s all about getting good form.

In Northern WI my vines didn’t even reach the top wire in year one… much shorter growing season than Missouri.

 

[wood1954]

I think this year I’m going to try to get suckers from the roots to grow like new plants. If they are successful I should be able to replace my older misshapen trunks in 2 years. I wonder if I need to cut them back like a new vine or not.

 

[Hazelemere]

if they are as thick as a pencil no. If they aren't yes.