Do you like your own wine?

[mainshipfred]

John, as I said there are exceptions and those wines are out of my league. Maybe I strayed from my point a bit. What I was referring to was whether it's a kit, bucket or grapes we should not be so lineal in our approach. A single varietal with perhaps a single yeast has to lack complexity of blends and/or multiple yeasts characteristics.

 

[montanaWineGuy]

My blueberry wine is incredible. Apple is very good, Rhubarb is drinkable.

 

[Johnd]

John, as I said there are exceptions and those wines are out of my league. Maybe I strayed from my point a bit. What I was referring to was whether it's a kit, bucket or grapes we should not be so lineal in our approach. A single varietal with perhaps a single yeast has to lack complexity of blends and/or multiple yeasts characteristics.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but perhaps you’re missing my point. The OP was talking about his grape wines, and his appreciation level of his product. I’m simply stating that judging what we make against the best of the best is an unfair field of play, I believe, if that is the evaluation environment.

One can start with mid quality fruit, mix yeasts, blend, and make it the best it can be, and it won’t compete with the top quality fruit, which is also fermented and blended masterfully.

Personally, I like my wines and enjoy sharing them. I wish they were 95’s, but they’re not. Are they as good as they could be? Don’t know, but that’s why I keep on trying, experimenting, different techniques, different barrels, etc.

 

[mainshipfred]

Totally agree, the best of the best is an unfairfield of play

 

[Stressbaby]

I thought of this thread today as I watched a documentary called "Decanted" on Netflix. It looked at the 2015 growing year in select Napa wineries. In one scene they were running the grapes on a conveyor belt and the entire team was there picking out bad fruit, one berry at a time.

Maybe I'm going to have to start doing that.

 

[CabSauv]

I think the best term here is handicap, as in golf. The home winemaker has a higher handicap compared to wineries that shoot par or below because wineries have the equipment, experience, product, and time. So essentially I agree that we're not on the same level playing field as the pros, but that's ok. We don't need to be.

I say this only having almost completed 2 kits , but really the same expectation should be said for grape wines. If our [the home winemaker's] goal is to make a 90+ point wine at home, I think it means our expectations are too high. Run on sentence impending: Sure you can continue to gain experience, add more tools to your tool belt, get better equipment and product to improve your wine, but the main purpose of home wine making, at least for me, is to have fun and make a decent every day wine that I have on hand to drink or share that I don't have to purchase from the store. I still expect to buy the $50-$150 bottle of wine on occasion, and that's ok.

 

[heatherd]

You didn't ask me, but I am an INTP. Screaming INTP.

Not a big surprise there, sour grapes. Mine is INFJ-T.

 

[AZMDTed]

You didn't ask me, but I am an INTP. Screaming INTP.

Me too, and the older I get the more I realize the consequences of it.

 

[ceeaton]

I agree with @Johnd . I believe that you can't make a great/good wine without quality ingredients (same for food). My goal is to learn how to maintain the quality of the raw ingredients throughout the process by "staying out of the way" with as little tinkering as possible. So far I think it is working well, just might have to improve my ingredient quality, now that I'm not messing up my batches with my tinkering (which is fun and hard not to do).

 

[Bodenski]

I record music as a hobby. I used to play in a church band, and I recorded all the individual tracks a couple of times a month so I could try and mix them. I always wanted to hear what we sounded like from the listeners perspective, which is very different than the stage monitoring mix. For a good year my wife would always tell me “you sound better live than you sound on the recording.” I kept leRning about mixing and then one day my wife finally said “that probably sounds a little better than you do live.” I was thrilled that day! But it took a lot of practice to get to that point.

I think I’ve made about 20 batches of different things in the year I’ve been making wines/meads. I have one batch I think is outstanding, one batch that i’m afraid i’ll End up tossing some day, and the rest fall in the middle. I hope with time I’ll notice more of my batches improve. (Both the ones I’m letting age and the new ones I’m making.). I am doing primarily country wines and meads so I don’t have a lot of commercial samples to compare them to. In a year I’ll have a better idea on how my wine from juice buckets will end up. All I know right now is that it is much easier to grab a bottle of wine from Walmart than to make my own, so I have focused on making things that I can’t easily buy. Maybe that helps keep me from making comparisons!

 

[JohnT]

I am really digging this thread.

If it is OK with everyone, I would like to take a bit of a different approach to this topic..

If you find your wine lacking, determine what exactly it is that you do not like and improve upon it next time. There is always a lesson to learn and something that can be done differently to improve your future winemaking process.

It is all a matter of the choices you make.

If you end up with inferior grapes, then choose a different variety or, perhaps, a different supplier next time. If you think your wine is flat, then, perhaps adjust the amount, type, and exposure to oak, or even the duration of the maceration process. How about doing acid trials? (if you are not already doing so). There are literally hundreds of decisions to make throughout the wine making process.

I really hope that this does not offend anyone, but if you do not like the wine you make, then do something about it. Change your process and/or decisions that you make to improve your wine in the future. Matticulous record keeping will help you in doing this.

It took me years to get to the point where I love my wine. Now, I can compare most of my varietals to much more expensive wines. Just recently (at pressing) we started off with a Stag's Leap Artemis (a $50 bottle) and found it much less preferable to all of our 2016 vintages.

Heck, a year ago we did a blind taste test between my Tuscan blend and an $80 bottle of Brunello. The wine steward tasted both and actually chose mine as the expensive bottle. Nope, this wine costs $4.31 (including cork and bottle).

Also, cellar pallet is real. Make it a point to drink a variety of different wines from a variety of different sources. Go winery hopping every now and then!

Winemaking is a journey to the perfect bottle of wine and the growth of talent along the way.

Ok, Getting off the soapbox now...

 

[dralarms]

I am really digging this thread.

If it is OK with everyone, I would like to take a bit of a different approach to this topic..

If you find your wine lacking, determine what exactly it is that you do not like and improve upon it next time. There is always a lesson to learn and something that can be done differently to improve your future winemaking process.

It is all a matter of the choices you make.

If you end up with inferior grapes, then choose a different variety or, perhaps, a different supplier next time. If you think your wine is flat, then, perhaps adjust the amount, type, and exposure to oak, or even the duration of the maceration process. How about doing acid trials? (if you are not already doing so). There are literally hundreds of decisions to make throughout the wine making process.

I really hope that this does not offend anyone, but if you do not like the wine you make, then do something about it. Change your process and/or decisions that you make to improve you wine in the future. Matticulous record keeping will help you in doing this.

I took me years to get to the point where I love my wine. Now, I can compare most of my varietals to much more expensive wines. Just recently (at pressing) we started off with a Stag's Leap Artemis (a $50 bottle) and found it much less preferable to all of our 2016 vintages.

Heck, a year ago we did a blind taste test between my Tuscan blend and an $80 bottle of Brunello. The wine steward tasted both and actually chose mine as the expensive bottle. Nope, this wine costs $4.31 (including cork and bottle).

Also, cellar pallet is real. Make it a point to drink a variety of different wines from a variety of different sources. Go winery hopping every now and then!

Winemaking is a journey to the perfect bottle of wine and the growth of talent along the way.

Ok, Getting off the soapbox now...

Well said.

 

[Donz]

I thought of this thread today as I watched a documentary called "Decanted" on Netflix. It looked at the 2015 growing year in select Napa wineries. In one scene they were running the grapes on a conveyor belt and the entire team was there picking out bad fruit, one berry at a time.

Maybe I'm going to have to start doing that.

I've watched Decanted quite a few times. Yes the serious wineries completely destem and go through the fruit on a conveyor process. Way too much work if you are a home winemaker doing big quantity.

 

[wineforfun]

Well, this depends.
My fruit wines I like very much. I have them down just the way I like them. I would put my blueberry, strawberry, etc. up against most commercially I have tasted.
As far as my grape wines (I have only made 3 high end kits and 2 low end kits), I like them as much as any $20 bottle I have had. Now, if I compare them to say a $50-$60 bottle, then probably not, but then again, in my mind, they weren't meant to be a $50 bottle of wine.

With all that said, @norcal, you still have one of the coolest labels ever.

 

[NorCal]

I've watched Decanted quite a few times. Yes the serious wineries completely destem and go through the fruit on a conveyor process. Way too much work if you are a home winemaker doing big quantity.

Oh? Two tons worth this crush.

 

[JohnT]

Way too much work if you are a home winemaker doing big quantity.

We sort through our grapes before and after destemming.

I have a whole crew of folks helping to sort grapes. We pull out all bad fruit, leaves, and other debris before crushing, and then any residual stems left that made it through the CD.

I remember once, years ago, one of the folks sorting found a grape harvest knife in one crate. I hate to think what that would have done to the CD if we simply dumped our grapes into the hopper.

You say that you make a big quantity. I am willing to bet that you share a large portion of that wine with others. Well, I would think that they should return the favor by helping to sort your grapes. Many hands make light work..

 

[Stressbaby]

Have you seen the movie? They are pulling individual berries off of the conveyor belt after destemming. If you can do that you have a lot more time/friends/resources than I do.

 

[tjgaul]

I've only been at this for about 18 months and I only make kits and fruit wine, but I've been pleased with just about everything I've made so far. The whites have been comparable to commercial $10-$20 bottles and drink well early (with the exception of the Riesling which improved with age). My whole family prefers my Gewurztraminers to most commercial versions and we live in the Finger Lakes where this grape excels. I only have a few reds in the bottle, but they are decent and definitely getting better with time. Most of what is still in the carboys are now high end kits (Showcase/RJS RQ/Eclipse) which will take some time, but currently show great potential. Personally, I have been very pleasantly surprised at how good my home wine has turned out. I am only disappointed when I open a bottle of something really good, like Earthquake Zin or BV Cab Sauv and try to compare my wine to that. Especially since what I have "finished" to compare to are all 10-12L kits with no significant adders.

I think that when my work in progress gets in the bottle and grows up a little it may well be giving the $25-$30 commercial wines a run for their money. I sure hope I am repeating that line in 2-3 years!

 

[Smok1]

Have you seen the movie? They are pulling individual berries off of the conveyor belt after destemming. If you can do that you have a lot more time/friends/resources than I do.

They probly just did that for the movie, as soon as the cameras stopped rolling they all walked away from that conveyor belt grabbed a glass of wine

 

[AZMDTed]

Fortunately I am not blessed/cursed with a wine connoisseurs palate. I'll never be able to describe wines like you see on TV or in their advertising. But what that means for me is that I can like what I like, and dislike what I don't, without having to worry about nuances that may sway others with better tasting skills.

As such, I have thoroughly enjoyed most of my wine and think it's on par and often better than the commercial quality I would normally buy for daily drinking. My WE Eclipse Chardonnays and Gewürztraminers have been thoroughly enjoyed by everyone who has had them, and that includes a wedding I took the G-miner to in the NY Finger Lakes area. Some of my early kits were 12L ones when I bought into the idea that they made good early drinkers. I wouldn't buy them again, but they got the job done. My 18L Red kits with skins have almost all been very good, to my taste. What I'm enjoying most about them is tasting them age over the years and seeing how much better they get with time. Now that I'm three years into this hobby my advice would be not to judge high end kits until you've tasted them with at least 2 years of age.

A year ago my plan was to get enough to start drinking them at 18 months. Well, I'm there, but now that I have some up to 3 years I see how much better they have become after 18 months and so I find myself with a gap. The improvement is non-linear with time between 18 months and 3 years. I want to let them age to at least 2 years now, and soon no doubt I'll be wanting 3 years. Time to kick my kit making into high gear again to have enough stock to get to that point.

I'm glad I don't have a nuanced palate. I can't taste any KT and I couldn't tell you what type of berry flavor finishes any wine. Heck I probably couldn't even tell if it was a berry flavor in the first place. But my wife and I know what we like and so far my kits have been good enough, and often well beyond that, for us.

Taste in general, and wine tasting in particular, is highly individualized so there is no right or wrong. But I'm fortunate to able to say, Yes, I like the wine I make.