EC1118

[winemanden]

Slightly off topic, but here's a bit of news

12 August, 2021
Moët Hennessy introduces first tequila with champagne yeast
Tequila "Volcan de mi Tierra" uses champagne yeast for fermentation for the first time

The Mexican tequila brand Volcan de mi Tierra, which belongs to the Moët Hennessy Group, has introduced a tequila fermented with champagne yeast. Until now, mostly bread yeast has been used to ferment the agave must, but never before champagne yeast. The yeast, sourced from Lallemand through the intermediary of Moët Hennessy, is said to give the tequila blanco new flavours of apple, caramel, pineapple and citrus, as well as a smoother finish. Volcan de mi Tierra was acquired by Moët Hennessy in 2017.

 

[Jim Welch]

I absolutely agree that a starter is not “needed” in winemaking but nor is rehydration. One can just sprinkle the dry yeast onto the must and wine will be produced. The same can be said for beer but there is much more risk doing that with wort vs must.
It appears from reading related forum postings that many winemakers and brewers do just that and make good or even great wine or beer, some I believe because they feel it is the traditional way, some for simplicity, some for both I’d guess.
I’ve read that article by Tim V linked to above before and agree with almost everything he states except that a starter has no effect on fermentation timing. How can introducing larger numbers of yeast cells at pitching not reduce the time it takes the yeast to reach the population density where robust fermentation gets underway? Yeast can double their population every 100 minutes under optimal conditions IIRC and I don’t think a fairly acidic must can be optimal.
With that said I have not done controlled experiments to prove this so would not say I can’t be wrong but I’d bet dollars to donuts that a starter has at least some effect on fermentation timing.

 

[Rice_Guy]

some basic micro, I would trust the supplier to give best process.
However I refrigerate yeast and have no issue in using packets that are years past code date.

How long do you leave the yeast in starter before pitching?

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/a-course-on-wine-industrial-webinars-by-suppliers.73427/

 

[winemaker81]

Huh, no sugar or must? You need that to get some growth.

The process I mentioned is in the Finer Wine Kits docs; normally I'd add sugar. There may be sugar in the yeast starter, although it didn't foam like there was.

This is the fastest ferment I've had. I created the starter and reconstituted the kit Wednesday, around 5 PM. Thursday morning around 9 AM I added the starter to the must, pouring it gently down the side of the fermenter so it didn't spread much. OG was 1.091.

Friday the wine was fermenting merrily.

Instructions said I could add the second dose of yeast nutrient 1/3 of the way through (1.060), or 2 days after pitching. Saturday I checked the SG: 1.035.

Yeah, 2 days!

Last night it was 1.015 so I'll be checking it in a bit, and probably racking tonight. The temperature helps -- Friday the ambient temperature in my cellar was 74 F, and the must was 84 F. IMO the temperature, coupled with a good starter plus pouring gently made this happen.

 

[winemaker81]

I’ve read that article by Tim V linked to above before and agree with almost everything he states except that a starter has no effect on fermentation timing.

He is demonstratively wrong on this point.

 

[Swedeman]

There may be sugar in the yeast starter, although it didn't foam like there was.

I guess it does otherwise it wouldn't be a starter but a re-hydration. (For 250 ml starter with a gravity of let's say 1.030 you would need roughly 20 g of sugar.)

Edit: They state in the this video that the starter package contains sugar and an acid blend.

 

[Swedeman]

I absolutely agree that a starter is not “needed” in winemaking but nor is rehydration.

Agreed, the simple reason I re-hydrate my dry yeast is to make a vitality check as I have experienced a few stone dead yeast packages when making beer.

 

[BernardSmith]

I understand that current thinking is never to add standard nutrients such as Fermaid O or K when rehydrating yeast as these compounds contain elements that can damage the cells. The material to add to dry yeast is Go-Ferm. Liquid yeast is already fully hydrated and so products such as Fermaid K or O will not damage them.

 

[Jim Welch]

I understand that current thinking is never to add standard nutrients such as Fermaid O or K when rehydrating yeast as these compounds contain elements that can damage the cells. The material to add to dry yeast is Go-Ferm. Liquid yeast is already fully hydrated and so products such as Fermaid K or O will not damage them.

You are absolutely correct and I had erroneously stated I use Fermaid K when in fact I use Go Ferm. I have went and edited that post to correct that. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Wine yeast is super robust stuff, Ive actually tried a pack that was stored in a fridge and was over 5 years past its expiration date and it fermented. Same with a can of Imperial Beer Yeast that was so old it was from when the company started out and was using cans instead of pouches so expired like 5-6 years before I used it and it worked. Its pretty hard to kill yeast in actuality if you store it properly.