Equipment (or not) for cold stabilization

[BarrelMonkey]

I'm curious as to how people are doing cold stabilization (or temperature controlled fermentation for that matter), particularly for batches of (white) wine in the 15-30gal range. I don't have any suitable equipment right now so it seems my options are (in increasing order of cost):

(i) Leave outside (or in a covered location exposed to outside temperatures) in the winter. No cost, but little or no control over temperature
(ii) Some sort of fridge/freezer. Can control temperature but limited capacity - 1 carboy at a time, or maybe would fit a 60L/15gal tank?
(iii) Glycol chiller system with either in-vessel chilling elements or jacketed tanks. The best solution, but can get really expensive.

Any recommendations (or other ideas) welcomed!

 

[winemaker81]

When I lived in NY, my porch rarely dropped below freezing, so I simply put carboys on the porch for a week or two, keeping an eye out for a major temperature drop. An acquaintance purchased a used refrigerator and removed all the shelves. He could fit a carboy inside and cycled his wines through it all winter. Depending on the shape of a tank, a chest freezer might work, but you'd have to dial the temperature up to 32 F or above.

Beyond that, you probably need a device like a cooling jacket.

The most cost effective solution may be to move 15 gallons into three 19 liter carboys, and cycle them through a refrigerator.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

When I lived in NY, my porch rarely dropped below freezing, so I simply put carboys on the porch for a week or two, keeping an eye out for a major temperature drop.

I'm thinking this might be the best option for me in the short term. We do get frosts here but it's rare for the temperature to go below 28F. I may need to build some sort of enclosure to provide some degree of temperature control/protection and dissuade curious critters...

 

[ratflinger]

Used refrigerator? Looks like you could 2 carboys into one. There's always some on Craigslist, or a used appliance store.

 

[justsgm]

I have cold stabilized 50-60 gallons of whites and rose' at a time using both chest freezers and stand up freezers. You can buy a used freezer for a couple hundred bucks. To use a chest freezer you would need some plastic tanks that fit the inside dimensions of the freezer. These plastic water tanks come in different configurations and are generally used for water in campers and RV's. After matching the tanks to the freezer then plug the freezer into temperature controller. Then set the controller between 25-30 degrees and your ready to start cold stabilization. I used an Inkbird controller from Amazon which are not that expensive.

I also cold stabilized in a stand up freezer. For the stand up you have to make sure that all the shelves are removable so your tank can fit inside. Same arrangement with the Inkbird controller. I found a standup freezer that would hold a 200 litre stainless tank for large batches. Good luck

 

[Rice_Guy]

* the cheap answer is to put outside, in N California you may want to dampen the swings of temp as by putting in a cow tank filled with water (maybe add ice jugs in the daytime) or taping together an insulation board box.
* chest freezer with an Ink Bird controller at 33F does it in about two weeks, ,,, you don’t have to have the whole tank in the chest, there will be enough chilling just by having the bottom 30 inches inside and wrapping the top of the tank with a moving blanket. ,,,, I have a dorm fridge in the wine area and have been tempted put it sideways then to cut a circle in the new top.

? How often do you want to chill a tank? a glycol system says every year. ,,, on a one shot trial I could tape together a foam board box with my dorm fridge (door removed) as one side and cool a tank for a few weeks.

 

[justsgm]

Outside will work when you have a constant temp at or slightly below 32F. But it is unpredictable and when weather drops below 20F your wine turns into a slushy. With a used freezer and an inkbird set at 25F I can cold stabilize in 3-5 days.

 

[ChuckD]

Hope it’s not too off-topic but are cold crashing and cold stabilization the same thing?

 

[ChuckD]

I have a dorm fridge in the wine area and have been tempted put it sideways then to cut a circle in the new top.

I’m not an HVAC guy but I don’t think you can do this. I believe the compressor needs to sit upright.

 

[winemaker81]

Hope it’s not too off-topic but are cold crashing and cold stabilization the same thing?

Yes.

I use "cold stabilization" as I get a really bad vibe when using the term "crash" in conjunction with glass carboys ....

 

[mainshipfred]

I’m not an HVAC guy but I don’t think you can do this. I believe the compressor needs to sit upright.

I believe you are correct. I've always been told when transporting a refrigerator it must be standing up.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not ready to invest the $$ for a glycol chiller and jacketed tanks yet, so I think I'll try the outdoors technique first.

For those that have tried it, is it awkward racking in and out of the fridge/freezer (chest or upright)? Seems that for an upright, you'd almost have to have some sort of spigot/valve on your tank, whereas could use a regular racking cane in the chest freezer?

 

[managuense]

I'm curious as to how people are doing cold stabilization (or temperature controlled fermentation for that matter), particularly for batches of (white) wine in the 15-30gal range. I don't have any suitable equipment right now so it seems my options are (in increasing order of cost):

(i) Leave outside (or in a covered location exposed to outside temperatures) in the winter. No cost, but little or no control over temperature
(ii) Some sort of fridge/freezer. Can control temperature but limited capacity - 1 carboy at a time, or maybe would fit a 60L/15gal tank?
(iii) Glycol chiller system with either in-vessel chilling elements or jacketed tanks. The best solution, but can get really expensive.

Any recommendations (or other ideas) welcomed!

Call Laffort USA and request a "sample" of Celestab. Add 1ml/L to your whites. For those quantities you're looking at a massive 56-113 ml addition. Boom, Cold stable

In very rare situations you could see a calcium precipitation however this is very rare except for the few places around the world that seem to have high Calcium numbers in their white varietals (Most often Sauv Blanc).

I've done tons of chemical and sensory research on this product and I can 1000% vouch that it works and it doesn't change the sensory on the wine at all.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Yes.

I use "cold stabilization" as I get a really bad vibe when using the term "crash" in conjunction with glass carboys ....

Do u cold stabilize All your wines?

 

[winemaker81]

Do u cold stabilize All your wines?

My response to @ChuckD was a facetious reaction to the term "cold crashing". I haven't cold stabilized in years, as it's not been necessary. Kits don't need it, nor do fruit wines if acid is added according to recipe. The grapes I've purchased in the last few years were low in acid, so I had to add, not remove.

When I lived in NY and made Finger Lakes whites, EVERYTHING needed cold stabilization, as they were all on the high side. This included reds, although they didn't drop as much acid.

Oddly enough, my 2019 second run is dropping crystals in the bottle, but I'm down to less than 2 cases so I haven't worried about it. When I pour for others, I pour carefully ... although I've had a mouthful of "crunch!" when I wasn't paying attention.

This wine illustrates why winemaking is an art, not a science. The first run was started in October 2019, the second run 2 weeks later. All wine spent the winter in my cellar at 58 F. The second run was bottled between August and November 2020, and the first runs in October. The first runs have not dropped a single crystal, which is not surprising, as I had to add acid to all batches. The acid added to the second run should have been fine.

In the spring of 2021, the second run started dropping crystals in the bottle -- after the temperatures warmed up (in mid-summer the cellar temperature is ~72F).

So ... the wine made it through one winter without dropping crystals, and through a second, then started dropping crystals after the temperature warmed up. I'm sure there is a scientific explanation for the phenomena, although it's entirely possible that Mother Nature and Dionysus are having a good time at my expense!

I answered your question in far more depth than you expected, right? I excel at that!

 

[Bmd2k1]

My response to @ChuckD was a facetious reaction to the term "cold crashing". I haven't cold stabilized in years, as it's not been necessary. Kits don't need it, nor do fruit wines if acid is added according to recipe. The grapes I've purchased in the last few years were low in acid, so I had to add, not remove.

When I lived in NY and made Finger Lakes whites, EVERYTHING needed cold stabilization, as they were all on the high side. This included reds, although they didn't drop as much acid.

Oddly enough, my 2019 second run is dropping crystals in the bottle, but I'm down to less than 2 cases so I haven't worried about it. When I pour for others, I pour carefully ... although I've had a mouthful of "crunch!" when I wasn't paying attention.

This wine illustrates why winemaking is an art, not a science. The first run was started in October 2019, the second run 2 weeks later. All wine spent the winter in my cellar at 58 F. The second run was bottled between August and November 2020, and the first runs in October. The first runs have not dropped a single crystal, which is not surprising, as I had to add acid to all batches. The acid added to the second run should have been fine.

In the spring of 2021, the second run started dropping crystals in the bottle -- after the temperatures warmed up (in mid-summer the cellar temperature is ~72F).

So ... the wine made it through one winter without dropping crystals, and through a second, then started dropping crystals after the temperature warmed up. I'm sure there is a scientific explanation for the phenomena, although it's entirely possible that Mother Nature and Dionysus are having a good time at my expense!

I answered your question in far more depth than you expected, right? I excel at that!

Whewwwwww! Thanks

 

[ChuckD]

We are coming up on a week of temps that look perfect for cold stabilization. I’m going to sample my wild grape wine tomorrow (three months in bulk) to see where it’s at. If I decide to cold stabilize should I rack it first then again after stabilizing, or only rack after? Or can I leave it sit a few more months on the tartrate crystals?

 

[winemaker81]

If I decide to cold stabilize should I rack it first then again after stabilizing, or only rack after? Or can I leave it sit a few more months on the tartrate crystals?

There's no point in racking ahead of time.

As long as the wine is cold, you can ignore it. Before it warms up, rack it.

Keep in mind that you can remove too much acid, so think before you leave it for months.

 

[ChuckD]

There's no point in racking ahead of time.

As long as the wine is cold, you can ignore it. Before it warms up, rack it.

Keep in mind that you can remove too much acid, so think before you leave it for months.

If I do it will only be four or five days in the garage. We are expecting lows in the 20’s and highs in the mid 30’s.
I may not even do it because I’m thinking of blending with my elderberry which had a pH of 3.49 last time I checked. It may be better to leave it and keep my options open.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Chuck you had a wild grape with a starting pH of 3.06 and seem to be at 3.2 lately. Since it is a northern I am going to guess that it is excessive as over 1% TA. Correct me if I am mixing threads.
Q? Do you want the finished dry? if so then you have to pull as much acid out as possible. , , , Do you want a sweet finished wine? if so you could leave some or all the acid in.
As far as a 3.49 wine, that is in a good place now. Elderberry has lots of bitter/ tannin flavor which will jump on the tongue magnifying any acid flavors. For balance if you push the TA up it will need lots of sugar.

? ? ? what is your sweetness goal? the TA will help predict how it comes out. (when you last racked wild grape did you taste the lees as is and with sugar?)

If I do it will only be four or five days in the garage. We are expecting lows in the 20’s and highs in the mid 30’s.
I may not even do it because I’m thinking of blending with my elderberry which had a pH of 3.49 last time I checked. It may be better to leave it and keep my options open.