Ewwww, it Stinks!

[deesloop]

Making a "Babylon" kit red wine.
Seems to be freeze dried fruit granules, I think, but cant actually make out any real fruit in it
(unlike their white which is very obviously dried fruit like pineapple, raising etc)

So did as instructed and waiting on fermentation bubbles, but isn't happening.
The wine sounds like it's fizzing a bit (so I presume it's working away) but no bubbles
appear in the airlock. Plus there's a real sulphur smell.

I was asked about rotten eggs and farts this morning, and was I cause of either.
What can the smell be.

Also, do fermentation buckets actually work with airlocks? The rhubarb wine I made
was quite vigorous with bubbles but its sat in a demi jon. The red wine in the 5 gallon
bucket but although using the grommet and airlock, I dont see any bubbles.

Thanks in advance

 

[Johnd]

The smell is from H2S, produced when yeast are under stressed, and it can taint your wine if left unchecked. You probably need yeast nutrients on board ASAP.
If your bucket seals well, you’ll see lots of bubbles. However, a closed vessel is not needed for AF, most folks cover their buckets with the lid placed loosely on top, or covered by a towel or cheesecloth.

 

[salcoco]

I would purchase a hydrometer instead of guessing if fermentation is working

 

[Rice_Guy]

as @Johnd said add nutrients ASAP, Fermaid if you have it otherwise DAP

 

[CoteRotie]

All good advice, I would splash rack after adding nutrients to see if you can blow off some of the H2S. There are ways to take care of the H2S if it persists.

 

[BernardSmith]

Yup , one way to remove the H2S (hydrogen sulfide) is to "splash rack" which is another way of saying that you siphon the wine from one container into another but you allow the wine to run down the inside surface of the second container to allow as much air into the wine. That can help to remove the foul smelling gas.
Another way is to add some copper scrubbing wool into the container and the copper will bind with the sulfur creating a tiny amount of copper sulfate. The hydrogen will bind with oxygen. But note: Copper sulfate is VERY toxic in quantity. However, if you simply pull out the copper wool after an hour or so then there will be only a microscopic amount of the copper sulfate produced- enough to remove all the smell but not enough to create any harm.
With that, if you allow the H2S to remain it will transform into a different compound - one that is far harder to remove and one that will make your wine taste terrible.

 

[sour_grapes]

I do not recommend using raw copper to treat H2S, because an unknown amount of copper will be dissolved into your wine. There are products (such as Reduless) that give a controlled dose of copper to bind the H2S.

 

[hounddawg]

Making a "Babylon" kit red wine.
Seems to be freeze dried fruit granules, I think, but cant actually make out any real fruit in it
(unlike their white which is very obviously dried fruit like pineapple, raising etc)

So did as instructed and waiting on fermentation bubbles, but isn't happening.
The wine sounds like it's fizzing a bit (so I presume it's working away) but no bubbles
appear in the airlock. Plus there's a real sulphur smell.

I was asked about rotten eggs and farts this morning, and was I cause of either.
What can the smell be.

Also, do fermentation buckets actually work with airlocks? The rhubarb wine I made
was quite vigorous with bubbles but its sat in a demi jon. The red wine in the 5 gallon
bucket but although using the grommet and airlock, I dont see any bubbles.

Thanks in advance

in the ferment stage i stir every day with a drill to get as much oxygen as possible during ferment, NOW that being said i never heard your answer of if you are the source of the rotten egg farts?????
Dawg

 

[deesloop]

Thanks all.
I can confirm I am NOT the source of the smell.
After adding some extra yeat nutrient and the smell has dissipated.
The kit came with yeast nutrient and I did use it, but perhaps it wasnt enough.

It only says t o stire a few times, , but I've been stirring each day, and will continue to do so for the next week or so.

I dont know that the seal is that great on the bucket round the grommet.
If I push the lid down, it does bubble a bit round the grommet, but the airlock doesnt bubble.
2nd kit that hasnt - although the home made rhubarb was nuts for 2 weeks.

I have a hydrometer but (oh no) didnt really thnik it was needed with kits (hangs head in shame)
Like I say early days and still reading- yes they did go on about hydrometers, but reading doesn't always translate into action....

Thanks folks for the input.

 

[David Violante]

How did you make out with the smell?

I have a mead (my first) that encountered the same kind of situation. I think it was related to a higher fermentation temperature and a lack of nutrients during primary fermentation. I did add some, just not enough I believe. I splash racked a few times over a few weeks but the smell kept returning. The taste was ok, it was just difficult to overcome the smell. I tried adding yeast hulls and fining but with little success.

I finally did a bench test with copper sulfate 1% to see if that would work. I added more than was necessary to a small solution and the smell went away completely, so I knew it was H2S and not something else like mercaptans or disulfides (THIS WAS A SMELL TEST ONLY - DON'T DRINK THESE). I added just below the recommended rate of the copper solution to the mead to treat 5 gallons and am letting it sit. I understand it takes a while to work. In the future I would follow the advice of Sour_Grapes and use Reduless over straight copper as it seems an easier and gentler way of managing H2S.

Here are a few websites that helped me to understand. Of course, there is a huge amount of information and help here on this forum too. A number of people will be able to explain some of the science far better than I:

Prevention and Treatment of Reductive Aromas (Enartis)​

Reviewing Yeast Assimilible Nitrogen and Hydrogen Sulfide Part 1 (Penn State Extension)​

Reviewing Yeast Assimilible Nitrogen and Hydrogen Sulfide Part 2 (Penn State Extension)​

Treatment for Sulfur Off-Odors (Cornell Cooperative Extension)​

​

​

 

[hounddawg]

How did you make out with the smell?

I have a mead (my first) that encountered the same kind of situation. I think it was related to a higher fermentation temperature and a lack of nutrients during primary fermentation. I did add some, just not enough I believe. I splash racked a few times over a few weeks but the smell kept returning. The taste was ok, it was just difficult to overcome the smell. I tried adding yeast hulls and fining but with little success.

I finally did a bench test with copper sulfate 1% to see if that would work. I added more than was necessary to a small solution and the smell went away completely, so I knew it was H2S and not something else like mercaptans or disulfides (THIS WAS A SMELL TEST ONLY - DON'T DRINK THESE). I added just below the recommended rate of the copper solution to the mead to treat 5 gallons and am letting it sit. I understand it takes a while to work. In the future I would follow the advice of Sour_Grapes and use Reduless over straight copper as it seems an easier and gentler way of managing H2S.

Here are a few websites that helped me to understand. Of course, there is a huge amount of information and help here on this forum too. A number of people will be able to explain some of the science far better than I:

Prevention and Treatment of Reductive Aromas (Enartis)​

Reviewing Yeast Assimilible Nitrogen and Hydrogen Sulfide Part 1 (Penn State Extension)​

Reviewing Yeast Assimilible Nitrogen and Hydrogen Sulfide Part 2 (Penn State Extension)​

Treatment for Sulfur Off-Odors (Cornell Cooperative Extension)​

​

​

long term bulk aging lets the gases dissipate
Dawg,

 

[DizzyIzzy]

Yup , one way to remove the H2S (hydrogen sulfide) is to "splash rack" which is another way of saying that you siphon the wine from one container into another but you allow the wine to run down the inside surface of the second container to allow as much air into the wine. That can help to remove the foul smelling gas.
Another way is to add some copper scrubbing wool into the container and the copper will bind with the sulfur creating a tiny amount of copper sulfate. The hydrogen will bind with oxygen. But note: Copper sulfate is VERY toxic in quantity. However, if you simply pull out the copper wool after an hour or so then there will be only a microscopic amount of the copper sulfate produced- enough to remove all the smell but not enough to create any harm.
With that, if you allow the H2S to remain it will transform into a different compound - one that is far harder to remove and one that will make your wine taste terrible.

Where have you purchased this wool? Online?..........................Dizzy

 

[DizzyIzzy]

Where have you purchased this wool? Online?..........................Dizzy

What quantity of this copper scrubbing wool would you add to the must?............................Dizzy

 

[BernardSmith]

I see that you don't do much grocery shopping. Your local supermarket sells metal wool pot scrubbers. Some are steel and others are copper. Not sure what they cost - probably a couple of dollars for a three-pack. You'll find them next to dish washing soaps and pads. I would add a unit - they come designed for whoever scrubs post in your home to fit inside the palm of a hand. They are perhaps 2 inch diameter "balls".

If you ferment in a bucket I would simply toss the scrubber into the bucket after sanitizing it and allow it to sit there for an hour or so. OR you could tie it around the end of your siphon tube so that the siphon sucks the wine through the scrubber to get into the tube

 

[DizzyIzzy]

I see that you don't do much grocery shopping. Your local supermarket sells metal wool pot scrubbers. Some are steel and others are copper. Not sure what they cost - probably a couple of dollars for a three-pack. You'll find them next to dish washing soaps and pads. I would add a unit - they come designed for whoever scrubs post in your home to fit inside the palm of a hand. They are perhaps 2 inch diameter "balls".

If you ferment in a bucket I would simply toss the scrubber into the bucket after sanitizing it and allow it to sit there for an hour or so. OR you could tie it around the end of your siphon tube so that the siphon sucks the wine through the scrubber to get into the tube

Thankyou for the reply. Yes, I do, indeed, do ALOT of grocery shopping and I purchase the copper scrubbers you reference. What threw me was you called it "copper scrubbing "wool", and I had never heard of that terminology. Appreciate the quick response..................Namaste'....................................Dizzy

 

[DizzyIzzy]

Thankyou for the reply. Yes, I do, indeed, do ALOT of grocery shopping and I purchase the copper scrubbers you reference. What threw me was you called it "copper scrubbing "wool", and I had never heard of that terminology. Appreciate the quick response..................Namaste'....................................Dizzy

BTW, Bernard....................I, too, am of Scottish ancestry: the MacDonald Clan. I went to the Isle of Skye a couple of years ago. Welcome to the US......Dizzy

 

[Johnd]

Thankyou for the reply. Yes, I do, indeed, do ALOT of grocery shopping and I purchase the copper scrubbers you reference. What threw me was you called it "copper scrubbing "wool", and I had never heard of that terminology. Appreciate the quick response..................Namaste'....................................Dizzy

One more time, I’m going to take a turn on the soapbox and preach about the evils of exposing your wine to copper, allowing uncontrolled amounts of copper to leach into your wine. It’s not the proper way to use the benefits of copper. There are products that allow you to control the dosage, you should strongly consider using them.

In the end, it’s your wine, and your health.

 

[Steve Wargo]

The only time I had H2S issues (twice) is when I fermented at too high a temperature, must, and air-temp in the high 80s and low 90s. So I don't start fermentation unless I can control those two temperature variables simultaneously.

 

[DizzyIzzy]

One more time, I’m going to take a turn on the soapbox and preach about the evils of exposing your wine to copper, allowing uncontrolled amounts of copper to leach into your wine. It’s not the proper way to use the benefits of copper. There are products that allow you to control the dosage, you should strongly consider using them.

In the end, it’s your wine, and your health.

Thankyou John....................................................Dizzy

 

[BernardSmith]

Johnd, I don't disagree with your statement but its just that these copper scrubbers are likely to release microscopic amounts of Cu into the wine, almost certainly less than the amounts of copper that copper pots release into acidic sauces during cooking. AND the amount of time the copper is in the wine is short, minutes, not days or weeks.
I also agree that Reduless is a better solution BUT the longer the H2S remains in solution the more likely it is to bind and become mercaptans and mercaptans, for all intents and purposes are not repairable