WineXpert Extended Maceration WineXpert Lodi Ranch11 Cab Kit

[Greg Teegarden]

Hey all,

So it's been about 34 days now into EM. Primary fermentation was over after about two weeks in at which point I racked it out of the bucket, reserved the skins and put it all into a big mouth bubbler, put it under airlock and have more less left it alone since. I used a small metal straw to siphon a little out the opening where the airlock goes into the bung to get a reading on it and one I thing I noticed is that it's completely clear, so I'm inclined not to add any of the clearing agents that came with the kit as they don't seem necessary at this point. Maybe save them for some of Danger Dave's DB I'm thinking of making next. There is about a quarter inch of sediment on the bottom of the bubbler so another racking is in order.

Something else I also read on another website was about not adding the sorbate at the next racking. The consensus was that if you're making a dry red and as long as you keep everything clean that the kit makers on that site have learned to skip the sorbate as they feel that it can add some off putting flavors. Some claim they never use it for dry reds anymore and haven't had any problems. So, add it or not, assuming I'm keeping everything clean? I know I can view it as an insurance policy, but I'm wondering how much it'll alter the taste of the wine.

Next, I also read from someone at UC Davis regarding EM who said that after about 33 days you don't really get any more bang for your buck time wise, which is where I am now. I know Tim V went a full 60 days on his video, but does anyone else have an opinion or had experience with these variable time frames, ie 30ish days vs 60?

Finally, once I do get it racked and add the oak cubes that came with the kit, how long does one let it bulk age before bottling? 6 months? A year? Less? Since I've already significantly deviated from the kit instructions timeline wise I'm going more on what I've read here on the forum and elsewhere.

Thanks in advance

-Greg

 

[sour_grapes]

Something else I also read on another website was about not adding the sorbate at the next racking. The consensus was that if you're making a dry red and as long as you keep everything clean that the kit makers on that site have learned to skip the sorbate as they feel that it can add some off putting flavors.

That is very much the consensus on THIS website, as well.

 

[crushday]

Perhaps I’m reading it wrong but I think you indicated that after primary fermentation was over in two weeks and you removed the skins all in the same sentence you said you were 34 days in the EM. From my understanding, EM involves the skins on the must through primary and secondary fermentation. You’d only want to remove the skins when you’re ready to clear the wine and rack for bulk aging.

Did you remove the skins after two weeks? If so, that’s not EM from my understanding.

 

[Greg Teegarden]

Hi George

I did not remove the skins. I dumped whatever had settled to the bottom of the bucket, which was some seeds and a few skins but everything that stayed in the bag and still free floating went into the bubbler where it’s been sitting now since June 22. The prior two weeks was all in the primary. So now I’m wondering how to best proceed as I’m off the kit instructions at this point.

Thanks

 

[crushday]

Greg, to be clear. The skins have been on the must for 34 days? Your options are these, in my opinion: Since it’s in a big mouth bubbler, you could leave it alone for a couple more weeks. The escaping CO2 is leaving a nice oxygen barrier so you don’t have any fear of oxygenation. I have nine kits, all in EM, started the same day (June 1) that I will move to the clearing phase on July 27th (Saturday). For me the clearing phase is when I remove the skins, press them with my fruit press, add the specific liquid back to the wine from which it came, mix in 1/2 tsp of K-meta and let stand for three months in a 6 gallon carboy. This will begin to clear the wine. I DO NOT use clearing agents - only time. And I do not use Sorbate.

 

[jgmann67]

Welcome to the EM club. I have the same timing question - how long is long enough. Next red kit I do with be a 5 week EM.

You’re doing it right skipping sorbate and clarifier. Basically, if your wine doesn’t need it, why add it?

As for bulk aging. I’m a fan of bulking my wine 9-12 months. Your wine should be perfectly clear, absolutely degassed and taste like you want your wine to taste like... then bottle.

Rack, dose with kmeta and age... three months at a time until your wine is ready.

 

[crushday]

To answer the remaining questions on your original post: Bulk aging can be whatever time you have equipment for or time for. Today, I bulk age for 12 months. Since I have yet to taste wine bulk aged for that long, I don’t have a taste comparison to test the prudence of the decision. Add the oak cubes once it hits the carboy. They will loose their ability to impart oak to the wine after a few months but there is absolutely no harm in letting them chill on the aging wine until bottle or rack again.

 

[dmguptill]

My opinion on EM is this: for almost everything else we do in winemaking the recommendation is don't rush it. Why would we do that with EM? It doesn't make sense to me. The kits have few enough skins you don't really have to worry about over extraction, and Tim V has suggested you might need that extra time for all the necessary biochemical reactions to take place that smooth out the wine. Plus if it's well sealed there is no concern of oxidation in that time. Not to mention more time to clear and degas.

Seems to me it can't hurt to leave it in there, it can only help. Why rush this when we exercise patience with everything else?

All that said, the scientist in me would love to see the data comparing different EM times for the same kit...

 

[pillswoj]

I am also on the don't rush it side. I have settled on 8 weeks for my EM time. I bulk age 9 - 12 months depending on if I need the carboy / have the bottles available.

 

[Wall_of_Paul]

Just wondering how your kit is coming along with EM?

I'm doing a double batch of this kit currently but I think my ferment might have stuck. I swapped out the yeast for BM4x4, used Opti-Red, Go-Ferm Protect and Fermaid-O but my SG is has been sitting at 1.032 for the last 2 weeks. Temp has been constant at 75F and I will have hit 8 weeks on Labor Day. Not sure if I should pitch a new yeast to bring it dry or give it more time. Either way, I'm looking at close to 3 months of EM by the time this batch ferments dry. My skins needed a few squeezes to get the bubbles out and then it sank to the bottom where it has been sitting for at least 3 weeks.

 

[crushday]

It certainly sounds to me like you have a stuck fermentation as long as you're sure on the gravity measurements. In the case of a stuck fermentation, which I've had two, you can get it going again using this method:

https://blog.eckraus.com/making-a-wine-yeast-starter-to-restart-a-stuck-fermentation

 

[sour_grapes]

but my SG is has been sitting at 1.032 for the last 2 weeks.

How are you measuring your SG?

 

[Wall_of_Paul]

I picked up a refractometer a while back and have been using that. I tested with water to see if it needed calibrating per the instructions and it was spot on.

 

[sour_grapes]

That is your problem! The alcohol in the wine alters the index of refraction. Read this: http://valleyvintner.com/Refrac_Hydro/Refract_Hydro.htm

 

[sour_grapes]

I should have said that your SG is probably just fine, that is, your fermentation is probably done. Just measure with a hydrometer to make sure.

 

[Wall_of_Paul]

wow, I did not realize there was an ethanol effect that meant you cannot take the reading directly. I'm not sure I am strong enough in math or detailed enough in taking notes to complete that formula though. So much for not making a mess and wasting wine with the old hydrometer. Very interesting read though, thank you for teaching me something new!

 

[Wall_of_Paul]

I was able to get the calculator working on the spreadsheet provided on the website you linked and it indicates that my last SG reading and temp would put me at 0.997. I'll do a hyrometer check and see if I line up with that and then I should move to bulk aging and add the second set of toasted cubes.

 

[pillswoj]

Refractometers are the worst thing ever pushed on the home wine maker. They have 1 good use which is to check the brix of grapes in the field to see if they are ready to harvest. Once fermentation is started the hydrometer is the better tool.

 

[Johnd]

Refractometers are the worst thing ever pushed on the home wine maker. They have 1 good use which is to check the brix of grapes in the field to see if they are ready to harvest. Once fermentation is started the hydrometer is the better tool.

I agree that the BRIX refractometer should be set aside once fermentation starts. For its intended use, which is checking BRIX in fruit and making must adjustments, it's superior to the hydrometer for ease of use, speed of readings, and quantity of juice required.

 

[Greg Teegarden]

Update on my EM for the Lodi kit. It's been 2 weeks since I racked the wine out of the big mouth bubbler and into a carboy. I added the sorbate that came with the kit, the oak cubes, and decided that I'd splurge and get an All in One Wine Pump to facilitate this process. Was surprised how much head foam was generated in the carboy during transfer, and now how many bubbles still appear when I occasionally vacuum the carboy more even after the two weeks it's been since the initial degassing, which I ran for at least 20 minutes.

This brings me to the next part of this experiment, which is a comparison of the grape skins that come with the Lodi kit verses my own Cabernet gapes that I'm growing. I only have 4 vines, so it's not enough to make a whole batch, but my question is does anyone have a good opinion on how best to add them in place of the supplied skin pack? I sort of assumed I'd try just picking the berries off the stems, freeze them as I've read the ice crystal formation helps to break down the skins a bit for better integration later into the must, add them as before on the first kit, pitch the yeast and continue as normal. Am I missing anything? Should I hit the crushed grapes with sulfite first to kill off anything unwanted before adding to the kit? The end goal is to see how differently the two kits pan out once they're all ready for bottling.