Finer Wine Kit Fermentation observation

[Old Corker]

I started two FWK kits on the weekend and have an observation I want to share with a question. I’m doing a Forte Merlot and a Cali Southern Rhone (only available in the Forte series iirc). Doing them side by side and following directions except for one variable. Mixed everything Saturday, pitched starter Sunday around 1:00pm, stirred first time Monday evening, Tuesday I had to take an overnight work trip which caused the variable. I added the nutrient pack at about 40 hours on Tuesday morning before leaving. They were both churning along well at that point and the nutrients caused a slight overflow of the Merlot. I chose to drop the packet at that time because my next opportunity would be Wednesday evening. So here it is Wednesday evening. I stirred them and there is still a lot of good foaming. The observation is that one of them, the CSRh, has tinier bubbles than the other. No big deal but I’m wondering why. The other difference is the SG. The Merlot was 1.004 and the Rhone was 1.014. They are fermenting at the same time under the same conditions. Is it possible that the tiny bubbles caused a distorted SG reading? BTW, starting SG for both was close Merlot 1.102, Rhone 1.106

 

[Ohio Bob]

No two wines are the same. I don’t see what the problem is.

 

[BigDaveK]

I've noticed a variety of bubble characteristics also. Big and little, dissipate quickly and linger for a while. Why? Protein? Fatty acids? Fructose? Polyols? Phenolics? Something else? Little things sometimes really bug me.

I'm sure dissolved CO2 and bubbles will distort an accurate density reading. Is it significant? I don't know. My time is limited so I carefully choose my information deep dives.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Bubbles on a hydrometer will cause a higher reading, you could kill the sample by microwaving it stirring out the gas, cooling, then doing the reading. Yeah that is too much work, I might still be high but try spinning the hydrometer.

You have too many choices to diagnose bubble size. , , , Grape juice has a variety of solids in it which can stabilize a bubble (hydrophobic end and hydrophilic end). A native protein will produce a film that can trap gas. High viscosity (as with a gum) can keep small bubbles from coalescing, a carboy which is closer to a heat source should release gas faster and coalesce faster. There are some food grade materials which act as anti foam agents. . . . . yup a curious observation, , , which might never happen again.

 

[Jim Welch]

I've no idea about the bubble size but differing fermentation rates under those circumstances does not surprise me at all.

I never make just one kit at a time, sometimes I make identical kits with identical yeast, sometimes identical kits with different yeast, sometimes different kits with identical yeast, and sometimes different kits with different yeast and I think I can safely say that these multiple batches never ever ferment at the exact same rate, even ferments with identical kits and identical yeast can be "out of sync" so to speak during fermentation.

What you see in the SG readings is not at all unusual in my experience. Usually starting at or about 1.100 OG they all have gotten to the "finish line" (of 0.994-0.996 FG) in their own time.

 

[vinny]

I've no idea about the bubble size but differing fermentation rates under those circumstances does not surprise me at all.

I never make just one kit at a time, sometimes I make identical kits with identical yeast, sometimes identical kits with different yeast, sometimes different kits with identical yeast, and sometimes different kits with different yeast and I think I can safely say that these multiple batches never ever ferment at the exact same rate, even ferments with identical kits and identical yeast can be "out of sync" so to speak during fermentation.

What you see in the SG readings is not at all unusual in my experience. Usually starting at or about 1.100 OG they all have gotten to the "finish line" (of 0.994-0.996 FG) in their own time.

I agree. I'm all for interesting observations, but for me my readings indicate potential abv, still working, and finished. I have noted the same differences in similar conditions with multiple kits and yeasts going at the same time. Yeast virility can affect kick off times, but I think there are too many variables with suspended solids, co2 concentrations, etc., that make the hydrometer a good tracking tool, but far from indisputably accurate.

 

[Old Corker]

I took the samples pre-stirring and the Rhone has visibly more foam in the test vestle. Both read 1.002-3 so I snapped the lids shut and put them under airlock. The Rhone started burping almost immediately and the Merlot took just a few minutes to start. For the record I never thought there was a problem as both were churning away. I was just curious about the variance. I appreciate the responses.

 

[winemaker81]

No two wines are the same. I don’t see what the problem is.

My first thought as well. @Old Corker, if you had 2 of the same kit, you are likely to see variation. Your kits had different OG, the pH was probably different, the grapes are different, etc. Even with the same strain of yeast, their reproduction and eating habits will be different.

Your question is a good one -- if you had it, others will as well.

 

[Old Corker]

I racked these two out of primary yesterday. The Merlot looks and tastes great but the Cali Southern Rhone seems kind of thin. It is very light in color which I noticed from the beginning of fermentation but thought it was just because of the volume of tiny bubbles. The picture is before I topped up. I tasted it and while the alcohol is there the other flavors are thin. Still early days I know but has anyone else done the CS Rhone and had similar experience? Yesterday was day 14. Merlot SG - 0.997, Rhone SG - 0.993

 

[Bmd2k1]

I racked these two out of primary yesterday. The Merlot looks and tastes great but the Cali Southern Rhone seems kind of thin. It is very light in color which I noticed from the beginning of fermentation but thought it was just because of the volume of tiny bubbles. The picture is before I topped up. I tasted it and while the alcohol is there the other flavors are thin. Still early days I know but has anyone else done the CS Rhone and had similar experience? Yesterday was day 14. Merlot SG - 0.997, Rhone SG - 0.993


View attachment 99167

My FWK CSRhone is 2months into bulk aging on some med+ French Oak & I haven't tasted it yet. Will post once I get back from Florida vaca & have sampled it.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I believe Grenache is a major component of Rhône wines, so not unexpected that it is lighter than a Merlot.

 

[wineview]

Fermenting a red at lower temperatures will produce a lighter wine. Do you know what temperature your primary was?

 

[Old Corker]

I did not get a temperature on it. It’s was fermented along side of the Merlot in the same room. Ohio Bob may be on to something. We’ll see as the process continues. The two musts look the same for color before pitching yeast. The only visual difference was the Rhône had more undesolved sugar.
Thanks for the replies

 

[winemaker81]

@Old Corker, this is my 2022 Grenache from grapes, after using Scottzyme Color Pro. The variety I have is NOT a dark grape. It looks much darker in the carboy, but it's not colorful. It is a full bodied wine, but obviously not as heavy as a Merlot.

 

[heatherd]

I did not get a temperature on it. It’s was fermented along side of the Merlot in the same room. Ohio Bob may be on to something. We’ll see as the process continues. The two musts look the same for color before pitching yeast. The only visual difference was the Rhône had more undesolved sugar.
Thanks for the replies

@Old Corker

Color: I'd chalk it up to the difference between varietals.

Kit varietal info from Label Peelers: "Your Finer Wine Kits’ Cali Southern Rhone is made from top quality California grapes. This unique version of the French Southern Rhone blend is a mix of Grenache, Syrah and Moscato."
Cali Northern Rhone Forte Finer Wine Kit
You're relying on the Syrah for the bulk of your color, so that's likely why it's lighter than the merlot.

Foaminess: Mine were all foamy and I chalked it up to the starter.

Nutrient second packet: I didn't add it because my ferments were fast and I was worried about wine volcano situation.

Overflow of Forte fit: Mine were super full and foamy, and I was sure thet were going to overflow, but they didn't.