Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kit Bordeaux vs Meritage

[JohnW]

Does anybody know the difference between the FWK Bordeaux and Meritage kits since both are made from CA grapes. I'm thinking about making one or the other but am curious what the difference is. It's my understanding that Meritage is made from US-grown grapes that adhere to the Bordeaux rules of wine making. Both must be made with the same grapes - Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Malbec and Petit Verdot.

 

[winemaker81]

Your question is an excellent one. @Matteo_Lahm, please describe the difference between the 2 kits.

 

[JohnW]

In absence of other input I'm going to assume the difference is the ratio of the same grapes used. Maybe I should make both and see which one I like best. I'll report back in a year or two if I actually follow through with my plan

 

[winemaker81]

That's my guess. In Bordeaux, reds are any combination of Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Petit Verdot, Cabernet Franc, and Malbec, weighted mostly toward CS and Merlot.

Meritage is the same, although some of more emphasis on CF.

 

[Bmd2k1]

for what it's worth...

The Meritage FWK website description only lists it as a Cab / Merlot blend.

My 2021 Bordeaux Forte blend was Cab, Merlot, Syrah & Petit Syrah (per feedback from Label Peelers back then)

Unclear what the %'s are for either. (...it would be great to have that info for documentation purposes)


Cheers!

 

[jgmann67]

for what it's worth...

The Meritage FWK website description only lists it as a Cab / Merlot blend.

My 2021 Bordeaux Forte blend was Cab, Merlot, Syrah & Petit Syrah (per feedback from Label Peelers back then)

Unclear what the %'s are for either. (...it would be great to have that info for documentation purposes)


Cheers!

I asked when I ordered my Bordeaux blend and was told the same thing - Cab is the dominant varietal, but Matteo guards the percentages of the three grapes. If I'm betting - 60/30/10 (Cab, Merlot, PS).

 

[winemaker81]

I asked when I ordered my Bordeaux blend and was told the same thing - Cab is the dominant varietal, but Matteo guards the percentages of the three grapes. If I'm betting - 60/30/10 (Cab, Merlot, PS).

I understand and appreciate why any vendor wants to preserve their proprietary secrets.

Yet ...

Let's say ten of us each purchase 600 lbs Cabernet Sauvignon, 300 lbs Merlot, and 100 lbs Petite Sirah, and for simplicity make field blends. We all follow the same process, e.g., same yeast, 14 day ferment, press, add K&C, rack after 2 weeks, carboy age for 12 months, and bottle. We will have 10 different wines, even if some purchase from the same vineyard. Knowing the percentages doesn't honestly matter.

A more entertaining experiment would be to have ten people make a given kit, e.g., Meritage, according to the above protocol, then blind taste. They should be similar, but I'd expect differences due to water, fermenting temperature, yeast lots, etc.

 

[jgmann67]

I understand and appreciate why any vendor wants to preserve their proprietary secrets.

Yet ...

Let's say ten of us each purchase 600 lbs Cabernet Sauvignon, 300 lbs Merlot, and 100 lbs Petite Sirah, and for simplicity make field blends. We all follow the same process, e.g., same yeast, 14 day ferment, press, add K&C, rack after 2 weeks, carboy age for 12 months, and bottle. We will have 10 different wines, even if some purchase from the same vineyard. Knowing the percentages doesn't honestly matter.

A more entertaining experiment would be to have ten people make a given kit, e.g., Meritage, according to the above protocol, then blind taste. They should be similar, but I'd expect differences due to water, fermenting temperature, yeast lots, etc.

I'd be down for that experiment. I agree - There are so many variables that will impact the taste of the wine.

 

[winemaker81]

I'd be down for that experiment. I agree - There are so many variables that will impact the taste of the wine.

It's an easy experiment to do ... it's the tasting that's nigh to impossible!

 

[JohnW]

I really appreciate all the input! It turns out that by the time I got around to ordering they were out of Meritage. I wanted something a little unique and ultimately decided to go with their Super Tuscan blend. Interesting that they substitute Syrah and Grenache for Sangiovese since it isn't available in California. Although this is not a proper Super Tuscan blend, Syrah, Grenache and Merlot does sound tasty so I decided to give it a try.

 

[jgmann67]

I really appreciate all the input! It turns out that by the time I got around to ordering they were out of Meritage. I wanted something a little unique and ultimately decided to go with their Super Tuscan blend. Interesting that they substitute Syrah and Grenache for Sangiovese since it isn't available in California. Although this is not a proper Super Tuscan blend, Syrah, Grenache and Merlot does sound tasty so I decided to give it a try.

Consider the Norther Rhône blend. Mine is in bulk aging now. But tasting tells me it has promise to be a very good wine.

 

[JohnW]

One more thing - I bottled my first FWK kit yesterday, Pinot Noir, and there were a lot of tartrate crystals in the bottom. I don't think this is a big deal but this is the first time I have seen this in any of my wines. I started it a year ago but it tastes like it needs at least another year for the tannins to resolve. Should I be concerned?

 

[JohnW]

Consider the Norther Rhône blend. Mine is in bulk aging now. But tasting tells me it has promise to be a very good wine.

Yes, I am telling everybody it is a GSM blend.

 

[winemaker81]

I really appreciate all the input! It turns out that by the time I got around to ordering they were out of Meritage. I wanted something a little unique and ultimately decided to go with their Super Tuscan blend. Interesting that they substitute Syrah and Grenache for Sangiovese since it isn't available in California. Although this is not a proper Super Tuscan blend, Syrah, Grenache and Merlot does sound tasty so I decided to give it a try.

I made a triple batch of Super Tuscan, which was barrel aged for 9 months. I'm very pleased with it.

One more thing - I bottled my first FWK kit yesterday, Pinot Noir, and there were a lot of tartrate crystals in the bottom. I don't think this is a big deal but this is the first time I have seen this in any of my wines. I started it a year ago but it tastes like it needs at least another year for the tannins to resolve. Should I be concerned?

Nope. While I've not had tartrate crystals in a kit before, it just means there was excess which precipitated out.

I bottled a PN last fall, Tavola w/o skins, and it's drinkable now. If you made Forte or Tavola w/skins, I'm not surprised it needs time. Again, no concerns.

 

[JohnW]

I made a triple batch of Super Tuscan, which was barrel aged for 9 months. I'm very pleased with it.


Nope. While I've not had tartrate crystals in a kit before, it just means there was excess which precipitated out.

I bottled a PN last fall, Tavola w/o skins, and it's drinkable now. If you made Forte or Tavola w/skins, I'm not surprised it needs time. Again, no concerns.

I made Tavola with one pack of skins. Hopefully it mellows in the next few months. Where it resides is a little cool, typically 65 or less, so it may take a little longer.

 

[winemaker81]

I made Tavola with one pack of skins. Hopefully it mellows in the next few months. Where it resides is a little cool, typically 65 or less, so it may take a little longer.

I made Tavola PN and prior to that, Tavola Barbera, with the intent to produce faster maturing wines. I've got a lot more Forte and grape wines that are longer aging.

The Barbera didn't wow me -- nothing wrong with it, just wasn't my buddy. However, in the last couple of months it has improved, so it just needed more time. I'm happy with the PN now, but expect it to get better.

I have a large surplus of "big" reds, and it's nice to have a lighter, fruitier wine like the PN as a change. Besides, not everyone likes the big reds, so it's good to have something that guests may like better.

Open a bottle of the PN every 2 or 3 months, and write down your impressions. Put those notes away and don't look at them. A year from now, read them first to last. It will teach you a lot about wine aging.

 

[JohnW]

The Barbera didn't wow me -- nothing wrong with it, just wasn't my buddy. However, in the last couple of months it has improved, so it just needed more time. I'm happy with the PN now, but expect it to get better.

We recently attended a 5 course dinner at an Italian restaurant with parings and I especially enjoyed the two Barbera wines they selected. Both the distributer and winemaker were there to discuss their wines. Really good Barbera can be pretty awesome.

Open a bottle of the PN every 2 or 3 months, and write down your impressions. Put those notes away and don't look at them. A year from now, read them first to last. It will teach you a lot about wine aging.

That is what I typically do. The first time I made sangiovese I started tasting a little early and by the time it was actually ready we only had 6 bottles left. Hopefully i can show more restraint this time.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Looking for feedback on the Meritage --- thinking about making it this fall.

Cheers!

 

[Khristyjeff]

Looking for feedback on the Meritage --- thinking about making it this fall.

Cheers!

I tweaked the Meritage kit a bit and enjoy it a lot. I added a blackberry f-pac to the dried raisins that came with it. Also split the oak so 1/2 went into the secondary. Plus I added 1 tsp of tannins to secondary. If you like oak flavor, you'd probably like this. If you're not as crazy about oak, I'd put all of the oak in the primary.

 

[Bmd2k1]

I tweaked the Meritage kit a bit and enjoy it a lot. I added a blackberry f-pac to the dried raisins that came with it. Also split the oak so 1/2 went into the secondary. Plus I added 1 tsp of tannins to secondary. If you like oak flavor, you'd probably like this. If you're not as crazy about oak, I'd put all of the oak in the primary.

Hey All...What's been your Fav FWK red blend?

Cheers!