Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[David Violante]

“It seems to me that any kit I’ve made without bentonite being added first took much longer to clear.?!?”

I used bentonite in my first FW Zinfandel (1 skin pack) and it hadn't cleared after three weeks post fermentation. That's still a short time, all things considered. When I added the Kieselsol & Chitosan, it cleared in two days.

 

[iagowasframed]

We can rule out incomplete fermentation ...

If you stir the wine vigorously, do you get a lot of foam? If not, it needs more degassing.

Did you add the kieselsol first, then the chitosan? If in the wrong order, the wine may not clear.

IF all the above are negative, give the wine a few more days. If it doesn't clear, try the kieselsol/chitosan again.

I did add it in the correct order I re-read 3 times to make sure I didn't mess it up. This did give off a LOT more bubbles during degassing but I hit it with my whip for a couple of minutes 3 or 4 times. Ill let it sit a few more days then dose it again. Thanks

 

[Bmd2k1]

I just got home and checked on my double batch of FW Bordeaux. I had added the yeast nutrient packs this morning as per instructions and when I opened the door to the fermenting closet I could immediately tell the ferment was quite warm. I took a temperature reading and it’s at 88F. Should I be alarmed? The SG this morning was 1.065 and now it’s at 1.020 in about 12 hours so it is racing along. I took it out of the closet because I have no means to adjust the temp in the room.

Any idea what varietals make up the FW Bordeaux? On website I see CabSauv & Merlot -- but it mentions 4. Hmmmm.

I'd also be interested in approx % of each

Cheers!

 

[Etxcav8]

I used bentonite in my first FW Zinfandel (1 skin pack) and it hadn't cleared after three weeks post fermentation. That's still a short time, all things considered. When I added the Kieselsol & Chitosan, it cleared in two days.

That’s interesting. Guess bentonite is not my solution, thanks for the info. So… back to kieselsol & chitosan, FW wine instructions say to add kieselsol and chitosan but they don’t specify a time between Kieselsol and Chitosan while all the other kits I’ve made had me wait various times between kieselsol and chitosan. Does this make a difference?
The FW cab sau kit is at the suggested (minimum) time to bottle but it hasn’t begun to clear. I’ll give it a few more weeks and if not clear by then will do another kie/chit application.

 

[cmason1957]

That’s interesting. Guess bentonite is not my solution, thanks for the info. So… back to kieselsol & chitosan, FW wine instructions say to add kieselsol and chitosan but they don’t specify a time between Kieselsol and Chitosan while all the other kits I’ve made had me wait various times between kieselsol and chitosan. Does this make a difference?
The FW cab sau kit is at the suggested (minimum) time to bottle but it hasn’t begun to clear. I’ll give it a few more weeks and if not clear by then will do another kie/chit application.

Directions from the manufacturer say to wait anywhere from 1 hour to 24 hours.

 

[Gilmango]

Any idea what varietals make up the FW Bordeaux? On website I see CabSauv & Merlot -- but it mentions 4. Hmmmm.

I'd also be interested in approx % of each

Cheers!

Well pretty certain that the other two are two of the other three classic Bordeaux varietals: Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot, and Malbec, although Carmenere, Gros Verdot, or St. Macaire could also feature but those are rarer in Bordeaux and in "Meritage" wines in the U.S. (trade name for non-Bordeaux wine blends made with Bordeaux grapes). Of those Cab Franc is most typical, followed by Petit Verdot; but I'm guessing that Malbec is more widely grown and available for a reasonable price in Lodi (vs. Petit Verdot), but I cannot find good figures to support that guess. But either way I'd guess the first listed, Cab. Sauv. is the most prevalent, and that Cab. Sauv and Merlot dominate the blend, ideally supported by Cab Franc and Petit Verdot.

At least on the Super Tuscan they list all three varietals, Sangiovese, Cab. Sauv., and Merlot and I'm guessing that is the rough order of prevalence.

I'm guessing that they don't want to list %s as that may vary over time, not only with pricing and availability but also what makes an ideal blend one year may not make one the next year.

Cool chart of red Bordeaux varietals by prevalence in Bordeaux:

 

[David Violante]

That’s interesting. Guess bentonite is not my solution, thanks for the info. So… back to kieselsol & chitosan, FW wine instructions say to add kieselsol and chitosan but they don’t specify a time between Kieselsol and Chitosan while all the other kits I’ve made had me wait various times between kieselsol and chitosan. Does this make a difference?
The FW cab sau kit is at the suggested (minimum) time to bottle but it hasn’t begun to clear. I’ll give it a few more weeks and if not clear by then will do another kie/chit application.

I spaced them about 16 hours apart. Interestingly, Bentonite is a negatively charged substance and the Kieselsol / Chitosan use both negative and positive charges to clump and clear. This is a great article in WineMaker Magazine on Fining Agents, and an interesting paper on Post Fermentation Clarification from the Worcester Polytechnic Institute. To be honest, time and patience are super helpful, neither of which I'm great at. That being said, the more wine I make, the less tempted I am to rush the process...

 

[heatherd]

i asked LP that question. Matt said you can do an MLF if you want but doesn’t see it as necessary. I might skip the sorbate/sulfite packet at the end and just use kmeta.

I've avoided sorbate in past kits because I was under the impression that sorbate contributes to kit taste. I added the provided finishing packet to my FWK Cab and Super Tuscan and tasted them both after the addition and they're delicious and have no hint of kit taste; now I know for certain that sorbate is not the culprit in kit taste and will continue to use the provided chemicals to these kits, as they've been well-engineered thus far and I want to benefit from that.

 

[heatherd]

That's my plan. I gave it just KMeta when I racked last weekend. I'll probably chuck the pre-packed stuff they included, as I don't want the Sorbate in there.

I added the provided packet and tasted the wine afterwards and the wine still was delicious and had zero KT. I will add all the stuff they provide, including the superkleer, to make this kit by the book with the only exceptions being: EM and longer bulk aging. I'm trying not to let my past experience ruin these well-engineered kits.

 

[Bmd2k1]

I would love to hear about that as well. I'm a big fan of the Cru International Sangiovese but always looking for something better.

What type of oaking do ya do 4 the RJS Sangiovese? Thx!

 

[winemaker81]

I did add it in the correct order I re-read 3 times to make sure I didn't mess it up.

I've made a lot of kits and I still read the directions when starting a kit. The instructions have varied between vendors and over time. Ya never know when something will change. Not do much in winemaking in general, but specifically in kits.

Measure twice, cut once, as is suggested in carpentry.

FW wine instructions say to add kieselsol and chitosan but they don’t specify a time between Kieselsol and Chitosan while all the other kits I’ve made had me wait various times between kieselsol and chitosan. Does this make a difference?

Directions from the manufacturer say to wait anywhere from 1 hour to 24 hours.

A few years back one vendor, can't remember which, specified 1 minute between the additions.

I stir in the kieselsol into degassed wine, cover it with a towel (it's still emitting CO2), wait 1 hour, stir in the chitosan, then rack into the carboy.

 

[Khristyjeff]

What type of oaking do ya do 4 the RJS Sangiovese? Thx!

We enjoyed a glass of RJS Cru International Sangiovese last night. It's right at the 8 month mark and has come around nicely. I followed the directions on this one to a "T" so I could get a baseline for this level of kit.
You asked about oak--this kit included 2 packages labeled "Oak Tea" which I added to one cup of hot water and let it sit for 10 minutes before adding to the juice. This goes in right at the beginning. This kit also contained a bag of dried grape skins that went into Primary.

 

[Dot]

I love the smell on these kits but I'm worried the SB I just degassed isn't showing any clearing after 2 days and that's after using the clearing agents. Anyone else have this problem with the finer wine whites?

My SB cleared on schedule and I will be bottling soon. It did seem to have a slow start, so hope you can see a change soon.

 

[Lynx rufus]

I’m hoping someone can give me some advice on here.
I’m considering making the FW Super Tuscan with double grape skins and doing an extended maceration. I have a 7 gal Fermonster and would like to know if anyone has tried this, and is it big enough for primary fermentation? I would like to avoid it bubbling over during the primary fermentation.

 

[MarcOlivetti]

I’m currently doing the same FW Super Tuscan with double grape skins and doing an extended 6 week maceration. Your 7 gal Fermonster will foam over. I foamed over using a 7.9 gal bucket (covered with towel). I would recommend splitting up into 2 primary fermenters for the first 3-4 days until SG hits ~1.04ish, then combine racking into the Fermonster and add packet C. Since there are 2 Skin bundles and 2 yeast packets, in theory this should work. At least that’s my plan for my next FW kits. That, or go with a double FW batch in a Brute

I finished EM after 6 weeks (7 weeks from pitching the yeast) and both the Super Tuscan, and Cab smelled & tasted better than any prior adventure. The Fermonsters worked great (PF.2 ?) though I was surprised how little juice I could press from the skins; and virtually nothing when degassing. I racked both ST & Cab last weekend to glass Carboys to stabilize and start clearing. I’m interested if they will take longer than usual like others have stated.

 

[Gilmango]

I’m hoping someone can give me some advice on here.
I’m considering making the FW Super Tuscan with double grape skins and doing an extended maceration. I have a 7 gal Fermonster and would like to know if anyone has tried this, and is it big enough for primary fermentation? I would like to avoid it bubbling over during the primary fermentation.

I did the same kit with double skin packs and EM. While it did not quite foam over in my 7.9 g Speidel, it came the closest to foaming over that I'd ever experienced (almost to the top) during punch downs and stirs in days 2 & 3. So maybe start in two fermenters, as Marc suggested.

Or alternatively hold back on the last gallon of spring water till after things calm down. That would mean you start with a higher gravity and higher acidity too those first days, so perhaps not the best idea. You could instead hold back a gallon of the wine after you stirred but pre yeast, then the o.g. and acidity would be the same, you'd have 5 g in a 7 g fermenter which should be enough room to keep from foaming over (especially if you keep temps in check - at the lower end), and you would just reserve that gallon in the fridge till the foaming subsidided.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Curious...

How does the amount of skins in One bag compare to the wet skins bag in RJS En Premier kits?

 

[Old Corker]

Curious...

How does the amount of skins in One bag compare to the wet skins bag in RJS En Premier kits?

My impression is they are similar in volume but because they are dry compared to the wet skin packs in the RJS kits, the FW skins are much lighter.

 

[Lynx rufus]

I like the idea of splitting it up into two batches for a couple of days. Then transferring it to the Fermonster for the EM. Hadn’t thought of that! Thanks!

 

[heatherd]

Well pretty certain that the other two are two of the other three classic Bordeaux varietals: Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot, and Malbec, although Carmenere, Gros Verdot, or St. Macaire could also feature but those are rarer in Bordeaux and in "Meritage" wines in the U.S. (trade name for non-Bordeaux wine blends made with Bordeaux grapes). Of those Cab Franc is most typical, followed by Petit Verdot; but I'm guessing that Malbec is more widely grown and available for a reasonable price in Lodi (vs. Petit Verdot), but I cannot find good figures to support that guess. But either way I'd guess the first listed, Cab. Sauv. is the most prevalent, and that Cab. Sauv and Merlot dominate the blend, ideally supported by Cab Franc and Petit Verdot.

At least on the Super Tuscan they list all three varietals, Sangiovese, Cab. Sauv., and Merlot and I'm guessing that is the rough order of prevalence.

I'm guessing that they don't want to list %s as that may vary over time, not only with pricing and availability but also what makes an ideal blend one year may not make one the next year.

Cool chart of red Bordeaux varietals by prevalence in Bordeaux:
View attachment 76297

Interesting, as I would not have thought Merlot would be the largest share.