Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[Rembee]

For those of you who may be interested, I spoke with Matt Pruszynski from LabelPeelers by email this morning to see when they expected to have the FWK Barabera kits back in stock. Matt told me that the Barbera kits far exceeded the FWK projections and they will not be available until the Fall Harvest season in October.

 

[bstnh1]

For those of you who may be interested, I spoke with Matt Pruszynski from LabelPeelers by email this morning to see when they expected to have the FWK Barabera kits back in stock. Matt told me that the Barbera kits far exceeded the FWK projections and they will not be available until the Fall Harvest season in October.

Seems like the projections for all of the FW kits were way off. Not gonna be a good seller unless the "out of stock" issue is resolved. I ordered several WE kits because the FW kits were unavailable.

 

[Rembee]

Seems like the projections for all of the FW kits were way off. Not gonna be a good seller unless the "out of stock" issue is resolved. I ordered several WE kits because the FW kits were unavailable.

I think that many here that have already made a FWK would highly disagree with you on not being a good seller. From all the reviews that I have read thus far, seems like the majority here are more then pleased with FW and probably wouldn't mind waiting a few months until there back in stock. After all, it is similar to growing your own wine grapes, they are only harvested, picked and fermented once a year. I myself don't have a problem waiting for a quality product.
To each their own I guess!

 

[bstnh1]

I think that many here that have already made a FWK would highly disagree with you on not being a good seller. From all the reviews that I have read thus far, seems like the majority here are more then pleased with FW and probably wouldn't mind waiting a few months until there back in stock. After all, it is similar to growing your own wine grapes, they are only harvested, picked and fermented once a year. I myself don't have a problem waiting for a quality product.
To each their own I guess!

Can't sell what you don't have available. The FW kits are a good kit. But if they're gonna be available only sporadically and only in limited quantities as they have been, then people will turn to other kits. Not everyone has the capacity or the desire to make their entire annual production of wine at the same time.

 

[cmason1957]

I am inclined to believe that maybe the FW kits were much more a hit than even their projections suggested they might be and that's why, at the start of the new company, there are supply problems. If two or three years down the road, the story is the same, then I might be more irritated by it, but I am certainly willing to wait for the superior product (and that's just my opinion, not a fact).

 

[Rembee]

LabelPeelers are not out of stock on all the FWK's. If I remember right, they are only out of stock on 5 kits out of the 14 kits that they have available for sale.
I agree with @cmason1957, FW is a new company just trying to get their feet wet.

 

[winemaker81]

I am inclined to believe that maybe the FW kits were much more a hit than even their projections suggested they might be

This!

The financial risk of breaking into the kit wine market at this time is extremely high. It's not just a matter of how much money the owners are able to risk -- it's also a matter of how much any a financial institution is willing to risk on them. I have a background in banking and am familiar with the risk assessment process financial institutions use when considering a loan.

Add to that the guessing game of "What grapes do I buy?". I would not have guessed on Barbera being a big seller -- I'd have purchased more heavily on Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot; certainly not Barbera.

For the record -- I purchased one of the last Barbera kits. Seeing it out of stock right after I placed the order was a surprise.

Like Craig, I'm cutting FWK slack on this. I suspect the internal response to selling out of some kits was something like, "Holy @^*%!! We're successful!" How they manage their short term success will determine their long term success.

 

[Old Corker]

I'm kind of straddling both side of this debate. One of the inherent values of the traditional kits is the wide range of kit types that are available any time of year. The lack of variety that Finer Wines offers is not a problem for me but only because they are offering the kinds of wines I like. Since it is not a commercial enterprise for me that's all I care about. I hope @cmason1957 is right that the supply is a startup issue and will get solved in the future. On the other hand, if the problem originates from the process (i.e. less flexible because it has to stay refrigerated) it may be harder to solve. At the moment I'm sure they are just overjoyed by the response. Good for them and good for us because they will keep it going.

 

[Rembee]

I know it’s coming, go ahead, say it @winemaker81

Yeah, this is the internet -- acting like rational adults is counter-intuitive, right?

Grown adults having a civilized conversation is always a good thing!
Just my 2 cents again lol!

 

[Gilmango]

Personally, I am delighted that a varietal like Barbera was offered at all, you don't see too much of that in kit form (same with Petite Sirah even if they won't spell it correctly), and the fact that Barbera sold out will, I think not only encourage Finer Wines to stock more of it in just a couple months when the 2021 crop is in, but also hopefully to try other less readily seen styles. I keep pushing for Grenache, would also love a Mouvedre and/or a Carignan; also love some other less often seen Italians like Nero D'Avola, Aglianico, Corvina, and/or Dolcetto. That they offered 14 varietals out of the gate is impressive. Hopefully even more will follow.

And to put it in even more perspective, lots of people not only tolerate but get genuinely excited about the one off kits offered each year by the big kit manufacturers. Those are even marketed and celebrated as "Limited Edition" kits. So I'm not upset with an upstart business which is similarly offering some unusual kits and happens to run out in their very first year of production (but which still has plenty of other red wine kits in stock). And harvest is just around the corner so they will likely be stocking even more in this year's harvest (both more of the big sellers, and also hopefully even more varietals).

 

[winemaker81]

I know it’s coming, go ahead, say it @winemaker81

With my normal source in jeopardy, I'm figuring out WTF I'm going to do. I had plans for what to make and strongly suspect I'm will have to re-jigger things. While I'm not happy about it, well, things will be what they will be.

I am going to ferment SOMETHING!

If FWK doesn't offer what I want, I have other choices.

 

[dmw_chef]

Why do you say spirals are "garbage"?

For the same reason chips are garbage. They impart a very monaural oak impression, it's like a monotone 'THIS IS OAK' flavor.

Take a look at a spiral and take a look at a cube. The spiral, like a chip, is going to have the same toast throughout. The cube is going to have a toast gradient more like a barrel would, so not only are you getting, say, med+ notes from the cube, but you're also getting fractions that you would get from medium, light and untoasted from the gradient; this, in my opinion and experience, imparts additional complexity and depth. That's why I recommend resting on them until they're neutral at 3-4 months rather than yanking at 4-6 weeks.

I've done side by side batches, and only two people (out of 15) failed a triangle test, and the mead rested on cubes was universally preferred among those who passed the triangle test.

 

[bstnh1]

For the same reason chips are garbage. They impart a very monaural oak impression, it's like a monotone 'THIS IS OAK' flavor.

Take a look at a spiral and take a look at a cube. The spiral, like a chip, is going to have the same toast throughout. The cube is going to have a toast gradient more like a barrel would, so not only are you getting, say, med+ notes from the cube, but you're also getting fractions that you would get from medium, light and untoasted from the gradient; this, in my opinion and experience, imparts additional complexity and depth. That's why I recommend resting on them until they're neutral at 3-4 months rather than yanking at 4-6 weeks.

I've done side by side batches, and only two people (out of 15) failed a triangle test, and the mead rested on cubes was universally preferred among those who passed the triangle test.

Interesting!

 

[Lynx rufus]

Thanks to all for the advice.
Now, I have something to think about while it’s doing the EM!

 

[dmw_chef]

So question. This is my first time using skins.

how long are folks macerating on the skins for these kits? I’ve had a friend tell me 10-14 days is considered long for wines, but then I see some folks say their doing up to twice that. Sadly, ‘EM’ is hard to search for.

In any event, my dry zin pyment ran past 1.000 today about 9 days post pitch and it’s honestly probably the best dry pyment I’ve ever made. My dwojniak zin is starting to slow down at about 17.5%, gonna pitch some nutrient vit end to try and keep it going.

 

[bstnh1]

For the same reason chips are garbage. They impart a very monaural oak impression, it's like a monotone 'THIS IS OAK' flavor.

Take a look at a spiral and take a look at a cube. The spiral, like a chip, is going to have the same toast throughout. The cube is going to have a toast gradient more like a barrel would, so not only are you getting, say, med+ notes from the cube, but you're also getting fractions that you would get from medium, light and untoasted from the gradient; this, in my opinion and experience, imparts additional complexity and depth. That's why I recommend resting on them until they're neutral at 3-4 months rather than yanking at 4-6 weeks.

I've done side by side batches, and only two people (out of 15) failed a triangle test, and the mead rested on cubes was universally preferred among those who passed the triangle test.

Oak cubes vs spirals

 

[dmw_chef]

Oak cubes vs spirals

gonna hard disagree with the person who equated staves and spirals.

https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/oakinfopaper09.pdf
read in particular the sections on oak beans and chips starting on the second page. Chips and spirals suffer the same failing.

 

[jgmann67]

So my barbera is topped up, with a mix of cubes and spiral imparting oaky goodness. And, I hit it with a dose of Kmeta.

Now we wait.

I did the math and have roughly 70 gallons of wine in Carboys, or about 350 bottles. Looks like I need to step up the bottle processing sooner than later. And, with most of them headed towards a Bordeaux bottle, this is going to get tricky. I hate to say it but I might have to buy some at the LHBS.

 

[Gilmango]

So question. This is my first time using skins.

how long are folks macerating on the skins for these kits? I’ve had a friend tell me 10-14 days is considered long for wines, but then I see some folks say their doing up to twice that. Sadly, ‘EM’ is hard to search for.

In any event, my dry zin pyment ran past 1.000 today about 9 days post pitch and it’s honestly probably the best dry pyment I’ve ever made. My dwojniak zin is starting to slow down at about 17.5%, gonna pitch some nutrient vit end to try and keep it going.

If you cannot search EM or get too many false positives from that you can search "extended maceration" and find lots of threads which are on topic (especially if you just search titles). Here's a good early thread on the topic: Other - Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab many more have been posted since then.

From doing that search on this forum it seems like interest in doing EM on kit wines with skins generally started with Tim Vandergrift doing videos about an Amarone experiment he did a few years ago (here's one reposted video: ), where he made 2 batches of Amarone kit wine, each with a skin pack, but one he racked to carboy after primary fermentation, and the other he did EM for a further month (or longer, he says 1 month in this video, but I think he also mentioned longer periods at other points). In the video I linked to he praises both wines at bottling, but really loves the complexity of the EM one.

From what I have read on this forum, most are doing EM for 4-10 weeks, generally in the same vessel as they do their primary ferment, so it is important to have an appropriately sized vessel which you can seal under airlock as primary fermentation winds down (Speidel 30Ls, Big Mouth Bubblers, Fermonsters, etc. are all popular choices). At that point (so as early as 1.020, or as late as 1.000) you seal your primary. Once sealed you no longer do punch downs, or temp or gravity reading, nothing to open the fermenter and you want to keep the CO2 (naturally produced as you wine ferments to dry below 1.000) on top of your wine, reducing oxidation risks. Since your grape skins are likely still floating under seal, you might rock the fermenter to keep them wet. Usually they will sink at some point during EM. At the end of your EM you rack to your 2ndary fermenter, usually a carboy, for next steps.

 

[memnosine]

Geetings from Colorado, Aurora. I was excited by the reiews I read here, particularly wrt FineWineKite not heating the must.I was planning on shifting to frozen, but Barbera is not in the usual catalog. When I saw in on he FW website, I placed my order for Barbera and a Zen. That's a blend I love in fresh grapes. The fermenting mix smells like I remember, looks the same, and I can only hope it tastes close to the same. just racked it to carboys.