Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[Sailor323]

After speaking with a guy at LP, it sounds like they possibly keep all the FWK’s in a freezer t

The juice in one of the FWK whites that I made was quite slushy when I removed it from the packaging. At first I was a bit concerned but then realized it was just thawing from a frozen state.

 

[winemaker81]

The juice in one of the FWK whites that I made was quite slushy when I removed it from the packaging. At first I was a bit concerned but then realized it was just thawing from a frozen state.

Ditto. I had to use a full gallon of water to rinse most of the bags -- but this is good, as I know the juice was not fermenting. After diluting with water at 65 F, the kits were in the 55-58 F range.

 

[Jovimaple]

When I spoke to Matt at Label Peelers last summer, he told me that's their process - they freeze the kits for a couple days at least before shipping. At that time anyway they weren't shipping on Fridays because they didn't want the kits sitting for the weekend in a hot FedEx warehouse.

My blackberry and strawberry kits got stuck in a warehouse in WI for several days but since it was because of a snowstorm, I wasn't too worried.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

So I am going to throw my FWK Cab into my new barrel but have a question I am hoping to get answered by someone….supposedly you are not supposed to put Wine that has gone through MLF into a barrel and then go back to non MLF wine in the same barrel. So my question is if I put this kit in the barrel and then top up with a commercial wine, isn’t that a problem since all commercial red wine has gone through MLF? Should I only top up with non MLF wine from my finished kits?

 

[jgmann67]

So I am going to throw my FWK Cab into my new barrel but have a question I am hoping to get answered by someone….supposedly you are not supposed to put Wine that has gone through MLF into a barrel and then go back to non MLF wine in the same barrel. So my question is if I put this kit in the barrel and then top up with a commercial wine, isn’t that a problem since all commercial red wine has gone through MLF? Should I only top up with non MLF wine from my finished kits?

This may be wrong - and the more experienced winemakers can correct me if I am. But, I think the concern comes in when the barrel is used during an active MLF, then you subsequently put a wine in there that contains sorbate. You'll likely get a geranium smell from your wine. But once an MLF is done, I'm inclined to say "wine is wine" and some wines will have more malic acid than others; and some wines will have more lactic acid than others. C'est La Vie.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Alrighty...finally getting into the Finer game - just ordered the Forte Bordeaux.

Cheers!

 

[winemaker81]

@She’sgonnakillme, adding on to Jim's (@jgmann67) answer, are you likely to barrel age a sweet wine, e.g., one that you'd add sorbate to? If not, the sorbate question becomes moot.

Also, not all commercial wine has gone through MLF. I have no idea what the percentage is but it's not 100%. To the best of my knowledge, I've never had a wine that was topped with commercial wine go through MLF.

A more likely scenario is if you age a wine you put through MLF in the barrel, any wine after that has the potential to undergo MLF. Given how finicky MLB tends to be, I have no idea what the likelihood is of the second wine undergoing MLF is.

 

[mainshipfred]

This may be wrong - and the more experienced winemakers can correct me if I am. But, I think the concern comes in when the barrel is used during an active MLF, then you subsequently put a wine in there that contains sorbate. You'll likely get a geranium smell from your wine. But once an MLF is done, I'm inclined to say "wine is wine" and some wines will have more malic acid than others; and some wines will have more lactic acid than others. C'est La Vie.

Jim, I don't think it makes any difference either. I using kit wines they evidently won't go through MLF anyway. As far as sorbate it's usually added prior to bottling and I wouldn't think it would then go back into a barrel.

 

[Lukaswine]

Interesting - I wonder if the juice should have been frozen given the length of time. It's perishable (like milk or cheese) and can only last so long in the fridge.

I'm betting the instruction manual will change to something like: You can leave it in the box and start the wine within 2 days of receipt; refrigerate for up to a week; freeze if you won't be starting your fermentation within a week of receipt.

But, good for LP and FWK for doing right.

I purchased the FWK Super Tuscan and Cabernet last summer and kept it refrigerated for almost three months without any problem. I immediately froze the grape skins because I knew I would not be able to start the wine due travel commitments.

 

[jgmann67]

Alrighty...finally getting into the Finer game - just ordered the Forte Bordeaux.

Cheers!

My Forte Bordeaux is on my door as we speak.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

My Forte Bordeaux is on my door as we speak.

lol, and mine is enroute as we speak, however it went from OH, to Tx, to AZ to CA and is supposed to arrive here in Spokane, Wa on Monday (1 week later). Fed Ex is pathetic!!!!!

 

[Sailor323]

lol, and mine is enroute as we speak, however it went from OH, to Tx, to AZ to CA and is supposed to arrive here in Spokane, Wa on Monday (1 week later). Fed Ex is pathetic!!!!!

Yep, I have had problems with FedEx for years--packages misrouted, packages delivered to the wrong address, drivers not able to find my house.

 

[Jovimaple]

Yep, I have had problems with FedEx for years--packages misrouted, packages delivered to the wrong address, drivers not able to find my house.

At my previous home, I kept getting my next door neighbor's UPS packages - placed RIGHT UNDER my clearly marked house number. After the third time, I took a picture of the label and a picture of my house number and emailed a complaint to UPS.

The response I got was the supervisor told the driver that my asphalt driveway to my mint green house was my address and my neighbor's cement driveway (leading to his brown house with clearly marked house numbers) was his. We are talking about driveways that can fit 2 cars end to end, so the houses with their numbers are clearly visible from the street.

But, hey, look at the driveways if that's the way you need to figure it out, I guess. It worked, anyway - I stopped getting the neighbor's stuff.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Hello all and happy new year! Thought I should chime in about the refrigeration issue. It needs to be kept in a refrigerator that’s under 40°. Preferably in the mid 30s. Some people don’t keep their refrigerators that cold. If the temperature goes above 40, you’ll get activity.
Matteo

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Hello all and happy new year! Thought I should chime in about the refrigeration issue. It needs to be kept in a refrigerator that’s under 40°. Preferably in the mid 30s. Some people don’t keep their refrigerators that cold. If the temperature goes above 40, you’ll get activity.
Matteo

@matteo_lahm…So my order that is taking one week to deliver and is going through TX, AZ and CA (all warm weather states) has no chance of arriving under 40 degrees?! Matteo, I assume since these are not pasteurized, food handling guidelines need to be followed? Ie: Serve Safe guidelines do not allow for food to be within 40 to 140 degree range for over a certain amount of time. You may need to reiterate this with the LP team as they told me yesterday that it can sit at room temp for days on end and have no problems. I pushed back on this and asked them how that can be as this is a perishable food item. Perhaps an upgraded 3 day delivery service would be a safer route? Or shipping them on dry ice or at least gel blocks?

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

@matteo_lahm…So my order that is taking one week to deliver and is going through TX, AZ and CA (all warm weather states) has no chance of arriving under 40 degrees?! Matteo, I assume since these are not pasteurized, food handling guidelines need to be followed? Ie: Serve Safe guidelines do not allow for food to be within 40 to 140 degree range for over a certain amount of time. You may need to reiterate this with the LP team as they told me yesterday that it can sit at room temp for days on end and have no problems. I pushed back on this and asked them how that can be as this is a perishable food item. Perhaps an upgraded 3 day delivery service would be a safer route? Or shipping them on dry ice or at least gel blocks?

This is why we freeze them to -10° and then ship them in the coolers. Short term warming is fine. It’s an issue with long-term storage. that said, we have replaced kits for people where shipping has been a problem. If the bag is not swollen when it arrives, it’s fine. What gives you flexibility with time issues is the high sugar content and acidity. It’s not a hospitable environment for bacteria or yeast.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

This is why we freeze them to -10° and then ship them in the coolers. Short term warming is fine. It’s an issue with long-term storage. that said, we have replaced kits for people where shipping has been a problem. If the bag is not swollen when it arrives, it’s fine. What gives you flexibility with time issues is the high sugar content and acidity. It’s not a hospitable environment for bacteria or yeast.

ok thanks for the clarification Matteo…with that said, I would assume if it goes above 40, product starts to degrade and one would be wise to ferment immediately? I work for a large food manufacturer and I ship samples daily via fedex / UPS and i know that like your product, it’s fine to consume but once it gets above the 40 degree mark, product quality starts a degrading and the clock starts ticking. I would assume this is the same with your product? I still highly recommend LP move to a 3 day delivery service, at least during summer months or to the West Coast as the current 7-9 day transit that orders are taking is a concern imo. Good conversation thanks, BTW I just ordered five more kits

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

We’ve discussed different business practices for the summer but up until now, we really haven’t had any problems. Like I said, the deep freezing, coolers and usual quick turnaround for shipping get the kits to the customers when they are still cool. Short term exposure to heat will not cause problems. You don’t need to start them right away. They can easily be chilled or frozen again without any issues. Hope all this helps. Have a great weekend!

 

[Edward L Sacco]

We’ve discussed different business practices for the summer but up until now, we really haven’t had any problems. Like I said, the deep freezing, coolers and usual quick turnaround for shipping get the kits to the customers when they are still cool. Short term exposure to heat will not cause problems. You don’t need to start them right away. They can easily be chilled or frozen again without any issues. Hope all this helps. Have a great weekend!

I agree with Matteo, the juice is highly concentrated and the sugar helps stave off bacteria and wild yeasts.
That’s similar to cured meats, salt and sugar make an uninhabitable medium for bacterial growth.
If you have a fresh bucket of juice or must then it needs constant refrigeration and still I’ve seen those spontaneously start to ferment.
God Bless

 

[Lynx rufus]

I’m looking for some information, thoughts, opinions. I just started a FW Forte Zinfandel kit. In the past, the kits with skin were done with an eight week EM. I’m wondering if the seeds in this kit are going to be a factor if I do an EM.
I expect the seeds to add tannins, but by extending their time in the wine, will they impart an excessive amount?
OR, am I just overthinking this?