Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[Rocky]

A bunch of people were crying about the color, so they pulled them all until they get it sorted out.

Brian, I was one of the people "crying about the color" and the fact that FW and LP have pulled the products from their offering supports our contention that there is something amiss with the white wines. FW and LP are doing the responsible thing that one would expect a supplier to do. There is some issue in the production or processing of the whites that has to be isolated and for which the root cause has to be found. There is no sense in continuing to sell an item that has problems.

As far as pricing is concerned, I have always found LP to be the most aggressively priced supplier for kits and equipment. I am sure one can find a better price on a specific item here and there with other suppliers, but on the whole, to me LP beats them hands down. I feel that a supplier is deserving of a fair profit. If one feels LP is "gouging," I would like to hear their opinion of some of the other suppliers.

My only issue, and it is a pet peeve with me since my days in Purchasing, is the use of the term, "Free Shipping." It is not "free shipping," rather it is "shipping included." I don't think either FedEx or UPS is delivering the kits for free. There is no free lunch!

 

[bstnh1]

Brian, I was one of the people "crying about the color" and the fact that FW and LP have pulled the products from their offering supports our contention that there is something amiss with the white wines. FW and LP are doing the responsible thing that one would expect a supplier to do. There is some issue in the production or processing of the whites that has to be isolated and for which the root cause has to be found. There is no sense in continuing to sell an item that has problems.

As far as pricing is concerned, I have always found LP to be the most aggressively priced supplier for kits and equipment. I am sure one can find a better price on a specific item here and there with other suppliers, but on the whole, to me LP beats them hands down. I feel that a supplier is deserving of a fair profit. If one feels LP is "gouging," I would like to hear their opinion of some of the other suppliers.

My only issue, and it is a pet peeve with me since my days in Purchasing, is the use of the term, "Free Shipping." It is not "free shipping," rather it is "shipping included." I don't think either FedEx or UPS is delivering the kits for free. There is no free lunch!

I understand your point. However. in the case of the FWK offer, the price is the same whether you pick it up or have it delivered, That makes it free shipping for those who choose delivery.

 

[Old Corker]

Brian, I was one of the people "crying about the color" and the fact that FW and LP have pulled the products from their offering supports our contention that there is something amiss with the white wines. FW and LP are doing the responsible thing that one would expect a supplier to do. There is some issue in the production or processing of the whites that has to be isolated and for which the root cause has to be found. There is no sense in continuing to sell an item that has problems.

As far as pricing is concerned, I have always found LP to be the most aggressively priced supplier for kits and equipment. I am sure one can find a better price on a specific item here and there with other suppliers, but on the whole, to me LP beats them hands down. I feel that a supplier is deserving of a fair profit. If one feels LP is "gouging," I would like to hear their opinion of some of the other suppliers.

My only issue, and it is a pet peeve with me since my days in Purchasing, is the use of the term, "Free Shipping." It is not "free shipping," rather it is "shipping included." I don't think either FedEx or UPS is delivering the kits for free. There is no free lunch!

I have found the same thing myself. Even before FWK came into the picture LP was lowered when comparing apples to apples for WE kits. That is, adding the shipping cost (LP) vs the shipping included cost (other vendors). I would also add is the customer service we get from LP and that Matt and Matteo seem to be aligned in providing great customer service. I, for one, appreciate it.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Also, restructuring our prices to include free delivery for a sale benefits the people who are further away from our shipping facility. Normally, the prices are lower but the people who are nearby benefit the most. The father away you live, the more you pay. Sales like this help people who live in Washington, California or Texas to get a better deal sometimes. It’s fair.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Also, restructuring our prices to include free delivery for a sale benefits the people who are further away from our shipping facility. Normally, the prices are lower but the people who are nearby benefit the most. The father away you live, the more you pay. Sales like this help people who live in Washington, California or Texas to get a better deal sometimes. It’s fair.

Indeed, and exactly why I ordered four kits yesterday! And three of my buddies did too!! Thanks!!! Now I need to buy more fermenters, dangit.

 

[Brian55]

Brian, I was one of the people "crying about the color" and the fact that FW and LP have pulled the products from their offering supports our contention that there is something amiss with the white wines. FW and LP are doing the responsible thing that one would expect a supplier to do. There is some issue in the production or processing of the whites that has to be isolated and for which the root cause has to be found. There is no sense in continuing to sell an item that has problems.

As far as pricing is concerned, I have always found LP to be the most aggressively priced supplier for kits and equipment. I am sure one can find a better price on a specific item here and there with other suppliers, but on the whole, to me LP beats them hands down. I feel that a supplier is deserving of a fair profit. If one feels LP is "gouging," I would like to hear their opinion of some of the other suppliers.

My only issue, and it is a pet peeve with me since my days in Purchasing, is the use of the term, "Free Shipping." It is not "free shipping," rather it is "shipping included." I don't think either FedEx or UPS is delivering the kits for free. There is no free lunch!

I understand that they wanted to correct it, but they could have simply sold them with a disclaimer regarding the color, rather than pulling them.

I have never had any issues with LP, pricing or otherwise.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

We will know where we stand on the whites in a few weeks. We thought about the disclaimer thing but we don’t want go that route unless we absolutely have to. We owe it to you to get this right. I’m hopeful for good results.


QUOTE="Brian55, post: 819774, member: 31516"]
I understand that they wanted to correct it, but they could have simply sold them with a disclaimer regarding the color, rather than pulling them.

I have never had any issues with LP, pricing or otherwise.
[/QUOTE]

 

[winemaker81]

I understand that they wanted to correct it, but they could have simply sold them with a disclaimer regarding the color, rather than pulling them.

That was my first thought as well, but I appreciate the need to ensure a positive reputation, so understand Matteo's decision.

 

[Rocky]

My experience with the Sauvignon Blanc is that it was not only very dark and off color, but the taste of the wine was way off for an SB. The wine is flabby and lacks the crispness and freshness that I would expect. I could have lived with the off color, but the off taste was a greater problem in my view.

I am very curious to learn the origin of the problem. I feel something happened in the processing of the wine which led to a chemical change in the juice. It is also interesting that it seems to have happened in a number of the white varieties. My only experience is with the SB.

I am confident that this issue will be put behind us and I look forward to making FWK whites.

 

[winemaker81]

My experience with the Sauvignon Blanc is that it was not only very dark and off color, but the taste of the wine was way off for an SB. The wine is flabby and lacks the crispness and freshness that I would expect. I could have lived with the off color, but the off taste was a greater problem in my view.

At what point did you note the flabbiness and lack of crispness?

 

[Rocky]

@winemaker81

Bryan,

I started the wine on 11-20-21. Notes from my log:
"12-7-21 Wine is very dark...much darker than any SB I've ever seen."
"1-30-22 (After second racking) Taste is not crisp, not characteristic of an SB, flabby. Slight off taste. Oxidation?"

Frankly, I have not been paying a lot of attention to this wine. I probably should dump it, but I have never had to dump a batch and it goes against my grain. I thought of possibly blending it with another wine, making vinegar, or using it for white Sangria. Not sure what to do at this point and I am waiting for a resolution from FWK and LP on the root cause of the issue before making a decision.

 

[winemaker81]

I probably should dump it, but I have never had to dump a batch and it goes against my grain.

Do not dump the batch!

Go to my site (url in sig), on the home page is the link to my oak stix experiment. Read the tasting notes from first to last. My results jumped all over the place. However, 6 months in the bottle, the wine is stable and pleasing.

Your SB is less than 3 months old. Do not make a decision on a single shot check in a young wine.

Patience has your friend.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Subpar wine is not “finer.” Believe me, we want to resolve this problem as quickly as you want us to. We just have to wait. Like I said, I hope to have results in a few weeks. As for the taste issues, we have not encountered any difference with flavor or aroma profiles. As someone previously said, don’t base your decision on three months. It needs time.

 

[Rocky]

@winemaker81

"Patience has (sic) your friend."



Seriously, I will be patient. Like I said I would hate to dump the batch. I will make every effort to preserve it and I will check out your site.

@Matteo_Lahm
I understand what you are saying, Matteo. I have had wines with slight flavor anomalies early on which improve with age. I believe this is a different case. There seems to be something "off" in the taste that I doubt time will ameliorate. I will keep an eye on it and let it age. Three months is not a long time for aging a white. At the same time, it is not like tasting something right out of the secondary fermenter, either. Normally, I can get a feel for how a wine will progress with a tasting at this point. I will allow that I have been wrong before.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Time will tell but this is why we took them down and won’t put them back up again until we know the problem is resolved.

@winemaker81

"Patience has (sic) your friend."

View attachment 84274

Seriously, I will be patient. Like I said I would hate to dump the batch. I will make every effort to preserve it and I will check out your site.

@Matteo_Lahm
I understand what you are saying, Matteo. I have had wines with slight flavor anomalies early on which improve with age. I believe this is a different case. There seems to be something "off" in the taste that I doubt time will ameliorate. I will keep an eye on it and let it age. Three months is not a long time for aging a white. At the same time, it is not like tasting something right out of the secondary fermenter, either. Normally, I can get a feel for how a wine will progress with a tasting at this point. I will allow that I have been wrong before.

 

[winemaker81]

Seriously, I will be patient. Like I said I would hate to dump the batch. I will make every effort to preserve it and I will check out your site.

Yup, you can always dump the batch later.

Our tasting results in the oak stix experiment were initially disturbing, as the wines varied so much. I thought I was going to dump 20 gallons ... but we hung in there and everything leveled out.

This doesn't mean you will have the same experience, but having the patience to let the wine age a bit may turn out positive results. If it doesn't? You can always dump the wine later ...

 

[Jovimaple]

I am about 3 weeks late but I finally backsweetened my FWK strawberry and blackberry. Talk about inky! Both are very dark and smell delicious!!

Hubby and I sampled before I backsweetened - super fruity but we both like sweeter wine so I am sure we will like it even better now that it's backsweetened. (The directions say to add 1/3 of the wine conditioner, stir, then taste, then add more if needed. That method lasted long enough for me to figure out what 1/3 would be and then I told Hubby, "who am I kidding? I am adding the whole thing!" )

The strawberry is a deep red in the glass and blackberry is a very dark purple. Unfortunately, I forgot to take pictures.

I split them each into 5 gallon + 1 gallon and divided the wine conditioner accordingly. Then for the 1 gallon of each, I added about 2 oz of chocolate extract I made (cacao nibs in vodka for several months). I may add a touch of vanilla before bottling but I want to see how the plain chocolate tastes first.

I plan to bottle within the next few weeks, although I may leave the chocolate flavored carboys a while longer, especially if I end up tweaking with some vanilla.

 

[Sailor323]

@winemaker81

Bryan,

I started the wine on 11-20-21. Notes from my log:
"12-7-21 Wine is very dark...much darker than any SB I've ever seen."
"1-30-22 (After second racking) Taste is not crisp, not characteristic of an SB, flabby. Slight off taste. Oxidation?" . . .

I bottld my FW SB on 1/14. I agree that it is quite dark for a white wine and also a bit flabby, not characteristic of SB. Where's that grassiness? It's somewhat alcohol forward but also kind of chewy like a chard.

 

[nanook37]

@winemaker81

Bryan,

I started the wine on 11-20-21. Notes from my log:
"12-7-21 Wine is very dark...much darker than any SB I've ever seen."
"1-30-22 (After second racking) Taste is not crisp, not characteristic of an SB, flabby. Slight off taste. Oxidation?"

Frankly, I have not been paying a lot of attention to this wine. I probably should dump it, but I have never had to dump a batch and it goes against my grain. I thought of possibly blending it with another wine, making vinegar, or using it for white Sangria. Not sure what to do at this point and I am waiting for a resolution from FWK and LP on the root cause of the issue before making a decision.

I had the exact same reaction to my Sauv Blac that I started in June- staring from the first taste after degassing and clarifying it was very dark and taste was flabby and not like a crisp SB - I almost dumped it and didn't bottle it but I did end up bottling it and it still is profoundly mediocre now 8 months out from the starting date.

The reds I have been very impressed with and just ordered 2 more last week but I hope they figure out what is going on with the whites or at least the SB.

 

[Rocky]

@nanook37

"The reds I have been very impressed with and just ordered 2 more last week but I hope they figure out what is going on with the whites or at lead (sic) the SB."

These are my sentiments exactly, except last week I order 3 Merlots! The reds (and I have going Cabernet Sauvignon, Super Tuscan and Zinfandel) are outstanding, probably the best wines I have ever made, all things considered.