Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[wineview]

Or follow the instructions and let it go the full 14 days?

I thought the 14 day period was recommended when you add skins. Tavola doesn’t have skins. Still ok to keep the lid snapped closed? What’s the longest you can leave the wine in the primary bucket with a sealed lid, no skins and airlock.

 

[ratflinger]

I tried a Tavola w/o skins - I thought it was thin. All my other Tavola's have had 1 skin pack and at 8 months they are fabulous. For the most part they go in my kegs. On the other hand the Forte's all go into bottles and are left alone for 2 years min. Just bought a Pinot Noir Forte kit, stole one skin bag for a WE Malbec that I'm blending with a Tempranillo. I can not make wine fast enough anymore, daughter and grand-daughter want wine or port for Christmas, wife wants wine for every dinner, I'm experimenting with ports, really should have made my wine room twice as big.

 

[winemaker81]

I'm curious winemaker81, do you use the included yeast with your Forte kits or swap it out for something else

I see this is your first post -- welcome to WMT!

I've done both. @Matteo_Lahm includes an appropriate yeast in the FWK kits, so using it makes sense. OTOH, last fall I did a triple batch of Forte kits with Avante -- I purchased half a kilo before discovering I wasn't going to be able to get west coast USA grapes, and since I had the yeast, I was darned well going to use it. The RC-212 from those kits is in my fridge -- I'll use it at some point.

If you're a beginner making a first kit, follow the instructions. Matteo provides great instructions -- best in the industry IMO -- and following the instructions will produce a happy ending for you, a good wine.

I thought the 14 day period was recommended when you add skins. Tavola doesn’t have skins. Still ok to keep the lid snapped closed? What’s the longest you can leave the wine in the primary bucket with a sealed lid, no skins and airlock.

The FWK instructions are a 14 day period, regardless of kit or if it has skin packs. Sealing the lid at SG 1.010 to 1.020 ensures you have sufficient CO2 to protect the wine during that remainder of that 14 day period. During that time the wine ferments to completion, under normal circumstances. When you unseal and rack, the fermentation should be complete and gross lees have dropped.

It doesn't matter if you have skin packs or not, you can leave the wine sealed for 8 weeks. In Burgundy they do EM up to 90 days. Due to continual tannin extraction, this produces a very long aging wine.

Is this what you want?

Consider what your needs are, and ignore everything else.

 

[wineview]

I see this is your first post -- welcome to WMT!

I've done both. @Matteo_Lahm includes an appropriate yeast in the FWK kits, so using it makes sense. OTOH, last fall I did a triple batch of Forte kits with Avante -- I purchased half a kilo before discovering I wasn't going to be able to get west coast USA grapes, and since I had the yeast, I was darned well going to use it. The RC-212 from those kits is in my fridge -- I'll use it at some point.

If you're a beginner making a first kit, follow the instructions. Matteo provides great instructions -- best in the industry IMO -- and following the instructions will produce a happy ending for you, a good wine.


The FWK instructions are a 14 day period, regardless of kit or if it has skin packs. Sealing the lid at SG 1.010 to 1.020 ensures you have sufficient CO2 to protect the wine during that remainder of that 14 day period. During that time the wine ferments to completion, under normal circumstances. When you unseal and rack, the fermentation should be complete and gross lees have dropped.

It doesn't matter if you have skin packs or not, you can leave the wine sealed for 8 weeks. In Burgundy they do EM up to 90 days. Due to continual tannin extraction, this produces a very long aging wine.

Is this what you want?

Consider what your needs are, and ignore everything else.

On the FWK that I have made, I found that if I sealed the fermenting bucket with airlock at 1.010 it was way to active for the airlock to handle. Consequently I have waited until SG is around.996 before sealing. Is this a mistake?

 

[Ohio Bob]

Not so much a mistake as just inviting potential bad things to happen, like bacterial infection. It might not get too far past 0.996, so it might be better to rack, add sulphites, let it age.

 

[wineview]

Not so much a mistake as just inviting potential bad things to happen, like bacterial infection. It might not get too far past 0.996, so it might be better to rack, add sulphites, let it age.

Point taken but how would I be inviting bacteria with a sealed lid under airlock? I’ve done three of these kits since March and did not have a bacteria issue. Can you elaborate please. Thanks.

 

[ratflinger]

Wineview - you may need to look into getting an airlock that will handle more gas. I'm airlocking at probably 1.04 or so. I think what Ohio Bob is getting at is that when you've waited until the wine is dry, and then air lock, that you might introduce bad things to a wine that is not out gassing much. You'll have no Kmeta there to help protect you. At 1.040 there is still plenty of fermenting going on and the CO2 blanket protects the wine. Once I air lock it I never open it again, until I'm ready to rack. Now, I am using Spiedel fermenters and they have this huge air lock, you could probably blow jet exhaust through them.

 

[wineview]

Wineview - you may need to look into getting an airlock that will handle more gas. I'm airlocking at probably 1.04 or so. I think what Ohio Bob is getting at is that when you've waited until the wine is dry, and then air lock, that you might introduce bad things to a wine that is not out gassing much. You'll have no Kmeta there to help protect you. At 1.040 there is still plenty of fermenting going on and the CO2 blanket protects the wine. Once I air lock it I never open it again, until I'm ready to rack. Now, I am using Spiedel fermenters and they have this huge air lock, you could probably blow jet exhaust through them.

Let me share an observation. Even with the airlock in place, I have noticed the center of the cover pushes up indicating pressure inside the bucket. What caught my eye was the airlock tilted on a slight angle instead of straight up and down. If I push down on the center of the cover it releases whatever is going on in the bucket through the airlock. Ideas?

 

[heatherd]

On the FWK that I have made, I found that if I sealed the fermenting bucket with airlock at 1.010 it was way to active for the airlock to handle. Consequently I have waited until SG is around.996 before sealing. Is this a mistake?

Not a mistake at all. I let several of my FWKs ferment to dry with the lid on loosely for that reason and they are fine. I hate wine volcanos!

 

[QuiQuog]

On the FWK that I have made, I found that if I sealed the fermenting bucket with airlock at 1.010 it was way to active for the airlock to handle. Consequently I have waited until SG is around.996 before sealing. Is this a mistake?

What type of airlock are you using? Is it bubbling up into the airlock or is is it blowing the water out of it? What do you mean it's too much for it to handle? Is it blowing the airlock out of the fermenter?

Let me share an observation. Even with the airlock in place, I have noticed the center of the cover pushes up indicating pressure inside the bucket. What caught my eye was the airlock tilted on a slight angle instead of straight up and down. If I push down on the center of the cover it releases whatever is going on in the bucket through the airlock. Ideas?

Is the bulge in the lid due to pressure? The airlock lets out gases before pressure builds up. Although I've never blown through an airlock before, I can't imagine that the pressure to push the water through the airlock is enough to change the shape of the bucket. It's hard enough to blow up a balloon sometimes, let alone a plastic bucket. I would guess that any warping of the lid is due to a size mismatch with the bucket. As if the tolerances in the factory weren't exact.

 

[winemaker81]

Let me share an observation. Even with the airlock in place, I have noticed the center of the cover pushes up indicating pressure inside the bucket. What caught my eye was the airlock tilted on a slight angle instead of straight up and down. If I push down on the center of the cover it releases whatever is going on in the bucket through the airlock. Ideas?

Something is not typical about your setup. A normal airlock (S-type or 3 piece) filled with water, vodka, or even glycerin will allow air to pass -- it will not flex the plastic of the container. Please post a picture of your setup.

 

[wineview]

What type of airlock are you using? Is it bubbling up into the airlock or is is it blowing the water out of it? What do you mean it's too much for it to handle? Is it blowing the airlock out of the fermenter?


Is the bulge in the lid due to pressure? The airlock lets out gases before pressure builds up. Although I've never blown through an airlock before, I can't imagine that the pressure to push the water through the airlock is enough to change the shape of the bucket. It's hard enough to blow up a balloon sometimes, let alone a plastic bucket. I would guess that any warping of the lid is due to a size mismatch with the bucket. As if the tolerances in the factory weren't exact.

That could be a possibility. If I oily the airlock and pres the center of the lid down, it straightens it out. Wine was never pushed through the airlock just the airlock fluid. S type airlock.

 

[3dB]

On the FWK that I have made, I found that if I sealed the fermenting bucket with airlock at 1.010 it was way to active for the airlock to handle. Consequently I have waited until SG is around.996 before sealing. Is this a mistake?

I lock down the fermentation bucket under airlock at pitching the yeast, and don't open it until ready to rack and degas. I've only ever had a problem once, when the buckets were too full (surface of the must too close to the lid). A vigorously bubbling airlock makes me happy; fermentation has never been "too active for the airlock to handle."

 

[Brant]

I wish a company made a 9 or 10 gallon fermentation bucket with locking lid. The FWK kits I've done foam to the top and soak the towel. I keep a clean set of towels that I handwash in oxyclean and star-san and soak in kmeta before draping over the bucket. This is the only downside IMO to running these kits in 7.9 gal buckets.

I've not had any issues once locked down beyond 1.01 but I'm also not using a heating band during ferment like some people do.

If not for the fact that I've already accumulated more equipment than I care to admit, I would probably invest in some large stainless fermentation vessels.

 

[silverbullet07]

I wish a company made a 9 or 10 gallon fermentation bucket with locking lid. The FWK kits I've done foam to the top and soak the towel. I keep a clean set of towels that I handwash in oxyclean and star-san and soak in kmeta before draping over the bucket. This is the only downside IMO to running these kits in 7.9 gal buckets.

I've not had any issues once locked down beyond 1.01 but I'm also not using a heating band during ferment like some people do.

If not for the fact that I've already accumulated more equipment than I care to admit, I would probably invest in some large stainless fermentation vessels.

I’ve done pretty well with my 7.9 by just laying the lid on top and the towel over it. Keeps the wine off the towel at least. The loose lid seems to allow plenty of gases to escape and keeps the bubbles down in the bucket.

 

[winemaker81]

If not for the fact that I've already accumulated more equipment than I care to admit, I would probably invest in some large stainless fermentation vessels.

Welcome to winemaking!!!!

I've not had any issues once locked down beyond 1.01 but I'm also not using a heating band during ferment like some people do.

Last fall I successfully fermented 8 batches at temps in the lower to mid-60's F, using an overnight starter. Starting with a larger colony appears to make a tremendous difference. Use of extraction enzymes makes a huge difference as well, eliminating a need for extraction at hotter temps to get better color.

 

[Brant]

I’ve done pretty well with my 7.9 by just laying the lid on top and the towel over it. Keeps the wine off the towel at least. The loose lid seems to allow plenty of gases to escape and keeps the bubbles down in the bucket.

If i understand you correctly, the issue I have doing what you mention is having a gap on the bottle side of the lid that would allow a fruit fly or gnat to gain access. Unless your mean leaving the lid centered on the bucket but loose (not snapped) and if this is the case, I don't understand why you would put a towel over the lid as it wouldn't add value.

 

[Brant]

Welcome to winemaking!!!!



Last fall I successfully fermented 8 batches at temps in the lower to mid-60's F, using an overnight starter. Starting with a larger colony appears to make a tremendous difference. Use of extraction enzymes makes a huge difference as well, eliminating a need for extraction at hotter temps to get better color.

Does adding colorpro increase the foaming/fermentation action? I ferment at room temp, 70 to 73F. If so, that might be adding to the issue. It's honestly more annoying than a problem. I like a clean/neat process.

 

[silverbullet07]

If i understand you correctly, the issue I have doing what you mention is having a gap on the bottle side of the lid that would allow a fruit fly or gnat to gain access. Unless your mean leaving the lid centered on the bucket but loose (not snapped) and if this is the case, I don't understand why you would put a towel over the lid as it wouldn't add value.

That is correct. It covers the air lock hole mostly but in case gases are escaping and left the lid up a little thought the pillow case I throw over may help in case fly try’s to find a way in.

 

[winemaker81]

Does adding colorpro increase the foaming/fermentation action?

It did not appear to make any difference in that respect.