Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[winemaker81]

I believe what happened is that the K-meta level in the airlock dropped enough so that the rectangular openings on the inside cap were no longer under the surface. The flies probably got in through the holes on the cap and entered through the rectangular opening, climbed in through the tube. There were about 10 of them in there.

Gotta watch the airlocks! That's among the reasons I use vented bungs post-fermentation, although I check all containers at least weekly regardless.

 

[hamish]

I just started a Grenache Rose and managed to add the Starter Pack A before measuring the specific gravity. It sat overnight before it dawned on me at 3am I neglected to measure the SG. Sigh.

Any ideas on how the Starter Pack might throw the numbers off?

 

[winemaker81]

Any ideas on how the Starter Pack might throw the numbers off?

It's K-meta, nutrient, and possibly acid. It should have no effect on SG.

 

[Rocky]

Gotta watch the airlocks! That's among the reasons I use vented bungs post-fermentation, although I check all containers at least weekly regardless.

Normally, I keep a close eye on the airlocks. This one got away from me somehow. I've been doing too much Fall yard work. Anyway, that is my story, and I am sticking with it!

 

[Mekpdue]

However, the little beasties did manage to defeat a three-piece airlock

I use the S type airlock and sometimes I'll see a determined fruit fly get into the airlock, but they don't make it past the vodka or distilled water I have in it. They just ride the bubble action for a bit until I rinse it out. It's not often, but it does occur.

 

[Rocky]

I use the S type airlock and sometimes I'll see a determined fruit fly get into the airlock, but they don't make it past the vodka or distilled water I have in it. They just ride the bubble action for a bit until I rinse it out. It's not often, but it does occur.

Vodka! At least they died happy.

 

[SLM]

My honest evaluation of FWK

I was an early buyer. I have 2 kits aged 18 months, a CS and a merlot, both double skins. Both are very flabby, bland. Doubtful that additional aging will improve taste. Not drinkable by my family's standards.

I also made a syrah, now one year old, also double skins. Did a 3 week EM. This one is a little more balanced, may be able to drink it.

For reference, I have made 9 kits total in 2 years, ranging from low budget to high end. Most of the other kits are superior in my opinion. Just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions...

 

[Rocky]

@SLM, I am not questioning your opinion of the wines, but this is the first negative assessment I have seen of any of the FWK reds. I have a Cabernet Sauvignon and a Merlot and, to my unsophisticated palate, they seem excellent. I am really surprised at the "flabby, bland" description. I have been very critical of the FWK whites, but not the reds.

Again, I am not criticizing your assessment, but what are some of the other kits you have made that you consider "superior?" (That is, brand and variety.)

Be assured, I respect your opinion.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

It's hard for me to judge my own wines...I did submit a few FWK's in this weeks AWS competition. I look forward to their tasting notes! I submitted a Cab Sauv, Super Tuscan and Riesling, all were 10 + months aged.

 

[winemaker81]

Since August 2021:

• Tavola Barbera, no skin packs, 08/21: Came out light bodied, good for what it is. I'll add a skin pack next time.
• Tavola Chardonnay, 11/21: good body and flavor, it's going fast.
• Tavola Riesling, 11/21: good body and flavor (my son's wine).
• Forte Super Tuscan triple batch, 11/21: still in barrel, I'm VERY happy with the current aroma and taste.
• Forte Syrah + Petite Sirah + Merlot, 11/21: still in barrel -- we actually like this one better than the Super Tuscan.
• Tavola Sauvignon Blanc, 04/22: Good body and flavor, it will go quickly.
• Tavola Pinot Noir, no skin packs, 04/22: light bodied but has full PN nose and flavor. Good turkey wine or for those who don't like heavy reds. I'll add a skin pack next time.
• Frutta Blackberry, 06/22: Not my typical wine, but is pleasing so far.
• Frutta Strawberry, 06/22: Ditto on the Blackberry.

@SLM, I have no idea what the difference is in your experience. If you purchased the first kits available, it may be that FWK improved the quality of the concentrate. Of the ones I've made, I like the Barbera (which was one of the last available Barbera kits) least.

For the CS and Merlot, add a small pinch of acid (tartaric or blend) to a glass and stir well. That may perk the wine.

 

[SLM]

what are some of the other kits you have made that you consider "superior?" (That is, brand and variety.)

Good question, here's a few reds

My fav is En Primeur Chilean Malbec. I shorted the water, 4 week EM, 16% abv. At 22 months this one is good. For the price it should be.

At the cheap end of the scale I made a MV Weekday Merlot. Also shorted the water, 2 week EM, added black currants per "tweaking cheap kits", although a bit overdone at 1.5 pounds. Starting SG was 1.114, didn't record final SG but must be in the 15% range. This is quite a light bodied wine but has good flavor. 21 months old.

First kit, MV Old Vine Cab, followed instructions, just OK

En Primeur Super Tuscan, followed instructions, not bad

Stags Leap Merlot. At 8 months it was tasting good, then I overoaked. Yuck!

Did a second MV Old Vine Cab, shorted water, 5.5 week EM, 15%abv. At 16 months this one is also bland, not going to waste my time bottling it.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I was an early buyer. I have 2 kits aged 18 months, a CS and a merlot, both double skins. Both are very flabby, bland. Doubtful that additional aging will improve taste. Not drinkable by my family's standards

Did you by chance measure the pH? Lack of acid might give the flabby impression. Might be fixable.

 

[SLM]

I did not measure pH, trusted the kit would be balanced, but yes I would say it definitely lacks acid. I tried winemaker81's suggestion of adding a pinch. That didn't do the trick by itself but in combination with some tannin it is improving. I'm really starting to believe in Tannin Complex, it's like a miracle cure for some of my ugly wines!

 

[Brant]

@SLM could it be that your tastes are suited towards very heavy reds only? If your used to shorting water or chaptalizing to target higher ABV, your expectations might be skewed a bit. Not jumping to conclusions, just speculating.

The second FWK I made is a CS single skin tavola. It's at 14.2% abv. Its currently bulk aging but at last tasting (5+ months), it seemed quite good and not flabby by my standards. Maybe this will change once bottled or maybe I prefer flabby wine. I don't believe this is the case though as I've experienced many wines far more flabby than this one.

I have limited experience in kit making but years of experience in wine drinking and I'm quite impressed at my perceived quality of FWK compared to the other kits I've tried. I have not made any high end RJS kits to compare to FWK. One thing I do notice with FWK is the lack of that unique "kit taste" I pick up in other kits I've tried. It's not necessarily horrible but it's noticeable and not exactly pleasant.

If you're at 18 months, did you do tastings throughout the aging process? Have you been consistently underwhelmed throughout or has your opinion changed?

 

[Brant]

@SLM I also wanted to ask what your definition of flabby is? How would you describe what they are lacking? Flavor/fruit, tannins, aroma, acid, structure? Do they just taste flat and thin without body? What exactly are they lacking that your other kits do not?

The double skin Forte PS kit I made actually ended at a lower ABV than the Tavola CS.

What was the ABV of the FWKs you made? If you followed the instructions, they probably ended around 13 to 14%. I would assume they would taste less sharp compared to the other kits you've made at 15 or 16%. Do you think this is a contributing factor?

 

[iagowasframed]

@SLM I also wanted to ask what your definition of flabby is? How would you describe what they are lacking? Flavor/fruit, tannins, aroma, acid, structure? Do they just taste flat and thin without body? What exactly are they lacking that your other kits do not?

The double skin Forte PS kit I made actually ended at a lower ABV than the Tavola CS.

What was the ABV of the FWKs you made? If you followed the instructions, they probably ended around 13 to 14%. I would assume they would taste less sharp compared to the other kits you've made at 15 or 16%. Do you think this is a contributing factor?

My issues were with FWK whites they were all flabby(low acidity about 3.5 PH) that's how I see flabby. I'm also disappointed with the dark color of the SB even after the carbon addition.

 

[GretchenR]

I know the words "kit taste" are like a red flag to a bull for some people, but I'll take the risk here. I've been making kit wines, almost all reds, since 2015. Before I ever read about the K.T. concept or heard the term at all, I was aware of a flavor in my red wines, from all brands of kits, that was a flavor I never tasted in commercial wine. After about two years in the bottle, that flavor dissipated, or so it seemed to me. I do not taste that flavor in any of the Finer Wine reds I have made. I guess I'm agreeing with Brant's assessment of FWK. I can't speak to the issue of "flabby" whites because I hardly ever make whites other than Riesling. My FWK Riesling didn't have an off color after the carbon.

 

[winemaker81]

@SLM could it be that your tastes are suited towards very heavy reds only? If your used to shorting water or chaptalizing to target higher ABV, your expectations might be skewed a bit. Not jumping to conclusions, just speculating.

Hmmmm ... you may have identified a key point. Shorting water on a kit increases the concentration of all constituents, including acid. If one is used to a higher acid concentration, it changes the expected perception.

 

[SLM]

Like Brant, I don't have a lot of kit experience but do have a lot of wine drinking experience. My wife and I drink red wine almost every day. So I'm not just comparing to other kits, but to all wines in general. I short the water because I prefer higher concentration, not necessarily higher abv. We don't like acidic wines, just well balanced fine wines. Neither of us are good at describing what we taste but I think Brant's description is pretty accurate, flat and thin without body. I would say my early impressions were, this is going to be good wine because it doesn't taste sharp or harsh like some of my other wines, but in the bottle they are quite disappointing.

 

[Brant]

Like Brant, I don't have a lot of kit experience but do have a lot of wine drinking experience. My wife and I drink red wine almost every day. So I'm not just comparing to other kits, but to all wines in general. I short the water because I prefer higher concentration, not necessarily higher abv. We don't like acidic wines, just well balanced fine wines. Neither of us are good at describing what we taste but I think Brant's description is pretty accurate, flat and thin without body. I would say my early impressions were, this is going to be good wine because it doesn't taste sharp or harsh like some of my other wines, but in the bottle they are quite disappointing.

@SLM Just a thought/recommendation- instead of giving up on FWK, you might consider making one similar to how you make your other kits (short water) to see if it ends up more in line with your expectations. It would be interesting to see if changing this parameter makes a difference to you and improves your opinion of the finished product. I believe the overall quality is high with FWK but maybe the process needs to be tweaked to develop a result closer to your desired outcome.

Or quit buying FWK, talk a lot of trash online and maybe the price drops for the rest of us. That is a win win in my book. jk