Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[Brant]

The economics seem attractive.

The Winery series is geared towards a specific buyer, of which I am not. For people like me that are just running 6 gal carboys or a 15 gal barrel, the normal kits sizes are better IMO.

I'd rather not deal with splitting concentrate or buying a 100L fermenter. I don't see the point for people like me who use most of the stuff in the FWK add packs. I do see the point for someone who is not planning to use the add packs or is looking to augment their crush with concentrate. So there are definitely people who might see value in this but for me the numbers don't make sense.

When comparing one Winery Series kit to three Forte kits, the WS line actually ends up costing slightly more (cost per liter) after shipping. At least that's how I see it if I'm comparing the Baby Super Tuscan Forte to the same Winery Series. It comes out to $6.34/L for WS or $6.23/L for Forte after shipping. So there isn't a cost savings for me and probably not for most at home winemakers.

Just some thoughts on the Winery Series. I wish there was a cost savings since you are essentially buying 3ish normal kits. How are these supplied anyway? One HUGE concentrate bag?

 

[Swedeman]

How are these supplied anyway? One HUGE concentrate bag?

From their site:
"Your Winery Series Kits contain 5.3 gallons of concentrate."

So large but not huge for a homemaker.

 

[Jim Welch]

Would it be a mistake to use several fermenters for one winery series kit? I may decide to use less water.

I plan on doing just that for the winery series FWKs I’ve ordered. Going to split into two fermenters with two different yeasts. Syrah should be the first I receive and plan on using Syrah yeast in one and maybe RP15 in the other.
Matt at LP told me they will come in 3 juice bags, I plan on using a scale and anticipate being able to get a near perfect split, within an ounce or so of each other is fine by me.
I’ll also have to devise some way of equally splitting the “add packs” that come with it. I’ll use a scale for any wood chips or powder that may be included and plan to dissolve the chemical packs in water and split the solution.

 

[jpdflyboy]

Anybody ever add skins without the bags? Would it matter other than clean up?

 

[Brant]

Going to split into two fermenters with two different yeasts.

Jim, what size/brand fermenters are you using?

 

[pacific_red]

The Winery series is geared towards a specific buyer, of which I am not. For people like me that are just running 6 gal carboys or a 15 gal barrel, the normal kits sizes are better IMO.

I'd rather not deal with splitting concentrate or buying a 100L fermenter. I don't see the point for people like me who use most of the stuff in the FWK add packs. I do see the point for someone who is not planning to use the add packs or is looking to augment their crush with concentrate. So there are definitely people who might see value in this but for me the numbers don't make sense.

When comparing one Winery Series kit to three Forte kits, the WS line actually ends up costing slightly more (cost per liter) after shipping. At least that's how I see it if I'm comparing the Baby Super Tuscan Forte to the same Winery Series. It comes out to $6.34/L for WS or $6.23/L for Forte after shipping. So there isn't a cost savings for me and probably not for most at home winemakers.

Just some thoughts on the Winery Series. I wish there was a cost savings since you are essentially buying 3ish normal kits. How are these supplied anyway? One HUGE concentrate bag?

Based upon volume of concentrate, the WS kit = 3 x Forte kits (exactly), so the WS kit is not that large if you usually start multiple kits at the same time. Comparing prices including shipping to California (~$72 for both) and my discounts, the WS Bordeaux kit including 6 skin packs and the Forte pack is $357.14 and 3 x Bordeaux Forte kits is $391.21. There is a decent saving if you like a particular wine and want to scale up. I just bottled by first Forte Bordeaux after an 18 month bulk aging and it is superb, so this is one I will be scaling up.

 

[Jim Welch]

Jim, what size/brand fermenters are you using?

2- 20 gallon Brutes
Edit: doing the Forte version in all batches so 20 gallon should be plenty big enough.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Bunch of new FWKs announced 2day -- Sangiovese in the mix!

 

[wineview]

The Winery series is geared towards a specific buyer, of which I am not. For people like me that are just running 6 gal carboys or a 15 gal barrel, the normal kits sizes are better IMO.

I'd rather not deal with splitting concentrate or buying a 100L fermenter. I don't see the point for people like me who use most of the stuff in the FWK add packs. I do see the point for someone who is not planning to use the add packs or is looking to augment their crush with concentrate. So there are definitely people who might see value in this but for me the numbers don't make sense.

When comparing one Winery Series kit to three Forte kits, the WS line actually ends up costing slightly more (cost per liter) after shipping. At least that's how I see it if I'm comparing the Baby Super Tuscan Forte to the same Winery Series. It comes out to $6.34/L for WS or $6.23/L for Forte after shipping. So there isn't a cost savings for me and probably not for most at home winemakers.

Just some thoughts on the Winery Series. I wish there was a cost savings since you are essentially buying 3ish normal kits. How are these supplied anyway? One HUGE concentrate bag?

Ok I did some math. Comparing Winery to Forte. Winery series Cab Sauv Zin price $192 yield 90 bottles comes to $2.13 per bottle. Forte series Cab Sauv Zin price $109 yield 30 bottles comes to $3.63 per bottle. I did not include shipping to keep it simple. If you wanted a 90 bottle yield in the Forte series, it would cost $327.

 

[Brant]

Based upon volume of concentrate, the WS kit = 3 x Forte kits (exactly), so the WS kit is not that large if you usually start multiple kits at the same time. Comparing prices including shipping to California (~$72 for both) and my discounts, the WS Bordeaux kit including 6 skin packs and the Forte pack is $357.14 and 3 x Bordeaux Forte kits is $391.21. There is a decent saving if you like a particular wine and want to scale up. I just bottled by first Forte Bordeaux after an 18 month bulk aging and it is superb, so this is one I will be scaling up.

The WS kit I looked at (Baby Super T) said it makes 61.6 L ($347.46* with shipping) and 3x Forte kits at 6 gal comes out to 68.1 L ($378.70 with shipping).

*This is adding 6 skin packs and Forte add packs.

For volume, I'm looking at the advertised finished wine volume- not concentrate volume. If you do the math, the savings is not there (at least for me) after shipping to my address.

I still believe the true savings comes in the form of not having to purchase add packs or skins with the WS kits.

 

[Brant]

Ok I did some math. Comparing Winery to Forte. Winery series Cab Sauv Zin price $192 yield 90 bottles comes to $2.13 per bottle. Forte series Cab Sauv Zin price $109 yield 30 bottles comes to $3.63 per bottle. I did not include shipping to keep it simple. If you wanted a 90 bottle yield in the Forte series, it would cost $327.

Are you adding skins and Forte add packs? Those are already included in the Forte kits but are not in the WS kits.

 

[Brant]

yield 90 bottles

Where do you come up with 90?

 

[wineview]

Are you adding skins and Forte add packs? Those are already included in the Forte kits but are not in the WS kits.

No I did not. I took the price from their site.

 

[wineview]

Where do you come up with 90?

Winery series is roughly 90. Forte 30.

 

[Brant]

Winery series is roughly 90. Forte 30.

This is the deceiving part. At face value, there appears to be a cost savings. If you look closely, the price per liter is identical until you factor in shipping which then actually increases the cost/L of the WS (since the finshed kit volume is slightly smaller). The shipping for 1x WS kit or 3x Forte kits was identical (to my address).

I'll continue to purchase 6 gal Forte kits unless LP changes something and actually make these bulk kits less expensive (after factoring for skins and add packs).

 

[Brant]

Winery series is roughly 90. Forte 30.

They don't say "roughly" 90, it says 82 (on the high end).

I typically get 28 to 29 bottles on a 6 gal kit. If 82 is accurate, you're giving up at least 2 to 5 bottles. That's how I see it.

 

[silverbullet07]

Sangiovese kits available now on their site. Some are preorder.​

 

[Brant]

2- 20 gallon Brutes
Edit: doing the Forte version in all batches so 20 gallon should be plenty big enough.

When you ferment in a Brute, how soon do you transfer to carboys (or other sealed containers)? I've considered this but I've started running EM on pretty much everything I do so containers like this don't work for me. I've been considering purchasing a large fermentation vessel that seals tight and has airlock capability to get around this challenge.

 

[Jim Welch]

When you ferment in a Brute, how soon do you transfer to carboys (or other sealed containers)? I've considered this but I've started running EM on pretty much everything I do so containers like this don't work for me. I've been considering purchasing a large fermentation vessel that seals tight and has airlock capability to get around this challenge.

7-10 days, I have done modest EM in them by pressing sanitized plastic food wrap onto the entire surface of the cap at 1.010 and also wrapping the top in plastic film. Did that with about 4 FWKs, it made me nervous and I’ve seen studies that indicate the skins give almost all they’re going to give in 7-8 days iirc. Not knocking those who do it though.
Best case is one of the large SS Speidel for EM imo. Expensive for sure but one will only cry once!

 

[Brian55]

Anybody ever add skins without the bags? Would it matter other than clean up?

Yes. Don't recommend it. Get some muslin bags and save yourself a headache.