First Attempt Using Frozen Must

[rødvinselsker]

Two pails of Livermore CS & two Merlot arrive today. From what I've read, it takes 1-3 days to thaw. Do most simply thaw at room temp or do you use a heated wrap to help the process? Also ordered a Vinmetrica SC-300 to check other vitals; that should keep my up at night since chemistry was never my strong.

My game plan is that when thawed I'll consolidate the cab and merlot into separate 20 gallon brutes, inoculate with D21, GoFerm Protect Evo, and Lallzyme EX-V. Per advice from a JohnD thread, I'll also co-inoculate with CH16 shortly after AF begins to facilitate MLF. After AF hits 1.0, rack into 5 or 6 gal carboys and add Opti Malo Plus, then top off. Once MLF is complete, re-rack, and add two medium toast oak spirals to each carboy.

Since this is my first non-kit fermentation, please chime in to let me know what I'm missing. Thanks!

 

[CDrew]

Sounds like a good start to me.

I try and give the enzymes a 12 hour head start on the yeast. Don't know if that's 100% necessary

You may want to feed the fermentation with some Fermaid O or Fermaid K as you go. The first feed at cap formation and the second at 16-18 brix. That's a safer approach to avoid a stressed fermentation.

D21 is a very good yeast. It doesn't get much talk here but I don't know why. I used it extensively in 2018 and had good success with it.

The CH16 has been a good MLF performer for me too, and I don't think you'll need to feed it with the Opti Malo unless you want to. I've always just done the "direct inoculation" approach recommended by Chris Hansen(the manufacturer), and I add it just after the first cap forms.

Regarding oak-It's easy to over do it. You're probably fine, but just be aware. You might want to do the CS with 2 and the Merlot with 1. Then taste. If the merlot needs more oak, you can always go another round of oaking.

Good luck, and post pics.

 

[stickman]

I've been thawing at room temperature with some periodic mixing.

 

[Johnd]

My advice is to let it thaw as slowly as possible, you'll get a few days of cold soaking for free. I'm also a big advocate, when doing coinoculation of yeast and MLB, of feeding each of them properly, you do not want them competing for nutrients.

Consider using Fermaid K as your yeast food, and Opti-Malo as your MLB food, adding half dose of each at the time of MLB addition to the must. Second dose of Fermaid K at 1/2 - 2/3 sugar depletion, second dose of Opti-Malo when you have pressed and racked off of the gross lees, this will give your MLB the food it may need to finish up in the carboys without the benefit of the skins/pulp/ etc.

Lastly, while I don't rehydrate yeast, I do believe that rehydrating your MLB with Acti-ML is a very inexpensive insurance policy to get the MLF going well.

Sounds like you've got a great project about to kick off, enjoy!!!!!!!!

 

[rødvinselsker]

OK, this is disappointing, just received two of the four pails, no insulation in the corrugated box to keep them frozen during the seven day transit, and the packages were stained with juice. The grapes are no loner frozen. Waiting for a reply from the vendor, grapesforwine. In the mean time, curious if anyone else has had this happen, or if it's normal. Not sure what to do at this point but ask for a refund and try someone else, like Brehms. Live & learn.

 

[Johnd]

OK, this is disappointing, just received two of the four pails, no insulation in the corrugated box to keep them frozen during the seven day transit, and the packages were stained with juice. The grapes are no loner frozen. Waiting for a reply from the vendor, grapesforwine. In the mean time, curious if anyone else has had this happen, or if it's normal. Not sure what to do at this point but ask for a refund and try someone else, like Brehms. Live & learn.View attachment 60887View attachment 60888
View attachment 60890View attachment 60889

Are they still cool? I wouldn’t hesitate getting enzymes and yeast on board.

 

[CDrew]

Just go for it as long as it isn't spoiled smelling. I think it thawed while on it's way to you. Were the grapes crushed? They almost look like they are still whole.

The company will not want to pay to return ship them, so hopefully you get some $ back. But seriously, I'd get your fermentation started ASAP. You have nothing to loose other than a few grams of yeast.

Edit: Looks like @Johnd and I are thinking along the same lines. Delay now can only hurt you.

 

[rødvinselsker]

Got the Brute cleaned up, rehydrated the yeast with GFPE and pitched it around 6:15PM. Didn't have a bit to drill a hole in the 20Gal brute for the spigot I bought, and didn't want to waste anymore time since the grapes/juice were already over 60° F. Also don't get my Lallzyme EX-V until tomorrow, so not sure if it will too late to use. Finally, never got an answer from the seller as to whether SO2 was added, though I've heard most pails of frozen must are sulfited. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath.

On another note, the Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot smells heavenly and is tearing through fermentation.

 

[Johnd]

Got the Brute cleaned up, rehydrated the yeast with GFPE and pitched it around 6:15PM. Didn't have a bit to drill a hole in the 20Gal brute for the spigot I bought, and didn't want to waste anymore time since the grapes/juice were already over 60° F. Also don't get my Lallzyme EX-V until tomorrow, so not sure if it will too late to use. Finally, never got an answer from the seller as to whether SO2 was added, though I've heard most pails of frozen must are sulfited. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath.

On another note, the Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot smells heavenly and is tearing through fermentation.

Add your EX-V when you get it, it’ll work. Follow th dosage instructions, it doesn’t take much!

 

[rødvinselsker]

FedEx tracking says the the EX-V and Opti-Red should be here today, so still planning on putting them in when they arrive.

36 hours in, no noticeable fermentation, but the must is warming, so some activity. I put my carboy warmer on the brute to coax the temp up to 82° F. Also wondered if whole berries would slow down the onset of fermentation, and found this on GuildSomm.com,

"Most winemakers on the west coast refer to whole berry ferments as the process where you remover the rollers from the crusher/destemmer and render it just a destemmer that removes berries from stems without rupturing them. The article you posted refers to whole cluster and whole berry ferments as the same thing but more commonly whole cluster ferments means some % of whole clusters with stems goes into the tank (stems contribute a lot of tannin) whereas whole berry ferments refer to fermentations composed of a large % of unruptured berries and no stems. Whole berry fermenations have become increasingly popular over the last few years as they tend to slow the down pace of fermentation at the beginning giving the wine more time on the skins and giving the wine maker more control over the process. They also result in less busted seeds and less harsh seed tannin."

Patience weedhopper.

 

[Johnd]

82°F is plenty warm enough, if it’s inside at room temps, you should consider removing that heat once it gets going and generating its own heat.

Not sure how the whole berries will factor into your AF timing, nor how the EX-V will perform. My guess is that it’ll still get in there to do its thing through the stem holes, as will the yeast, plus, I see plenty of popped berries in your photo. Your plan seems solid.

BTW, I re-read your original post, noted your plan to add 2 oak spirals per carboy, might want to consider 1 per carboy. After you’ve gotten the oak flavor from one, you can always add another til you get the taste right. Spirals have a lot of surface area and, for me, can put a lot of oak on board pretty quickly.

 

[Chuck E]

FedEx tracking says the the EX-V and Opti-Red should be here today, so still planning on putting them in when they arrive.

36 hours in, no noticeable fermentation, but the must is warming, so some activity. I put my carboy warmer on the brute to coax the temp up to 82° F. Also wondered if whole berries would slow down the onset of fermentation, and found this on GuildSomm.com,

Patience weedhopper.

I like to keep my red ferments in the 70-80F range. Don't forget to punch down the cap at least twice a day. The punch down will also break the berries so the EX-V will work better.

 

[rødvinselsker]

I may be overdoing the punch down, if that's possible. The heater is connected to a controller with probe in the must, keeping it steady at 82°F. Two days in and I can hear it doing something, just can't see it as visibly as I would like.

AF began ahead of what I planned, for obvious reasons, so wondering if I should still do TA & pH tests with the SC-300 that just arrived.

 

[Boatboy24]

AF began ahead of what I planned, for obvious reasons, so wondering if I should still do TA & pH tests with the SC-300 that just arrived.

Were it my wine, I'd want to test, just to know - at least for pH. If they are significantly off from desired levels, you're better off adjusting now. Just be sure you've removed any CO2 from your sample first.

 

[crushday]

View attachment 60887

That lid looks bloated...

I sure hope you can get this wine going... Any word on the other two buckets? This late spring heat is a killer...

 

[rødvinselsker]

82°F is plenty warm enough, if it’s inside at room temps, you should consider removing that heat once it gets going and generating its own heat.

Not sure how the whole berries will factor into your AF timing, nor how the EX-V will perform. My guess is that it’ll still get in there to do its thing through the stem holes, as will the yeast, plus, I see plenty of popped berries in your photo. Your plan seems solid.

BTW, I re-read your original post, noted your plan to add 2 oak spirals per carboy, might want to consider 1 per carboy. After you’ve gotten the oak flavor from one, you can always add another til you get the taste right. Spirals have a lot of surface area and, for me, can put a lot of oak on board pretty quickly.

You're probably right about the oak, always easy to add later if it's not enough. Regards to the whole berries, I'm doing a deep punch, though not bottoming out, to see if I can break the berries without bursting the seeds. The number of stems is also a bit of a problem, but keep weeding them out. This was clearly mechanically harvested.

 

[rødvinselsker]

That lid looks bloated...

I sure hope you can get this wine going... Any word on the other two buckets? This late spring heat is a killer...

The two buckets of CS were reported damaged. That's a drag because I wanted to ferment separately and blend the two after aging. Guess I'll go to Brehms for that.

 

[rødvinselsker]

Were it my wine, I'd want to test, just to know - at least for pH. If they are significantly off from desired levels, you're better off adjusting now. Just be sure you've removed any CO2 from your sample first.

I'll test tomorrow morning, if for no other reason, to get an idea of how to use the darn thing and know what I'm looking for. Fortunately, given the condition of the grapes, the vendor did the right thing and has credited the order. I don't know whether this will turn out good or not, but good knowing I won't take a hit if it doesn't.

 

[crushday]

The two buckets of CS were reported damaged. That's a drag because I wanted to ferment separately and blend the two after aging. Guess I'll go to Brehms for that.

You might consider winegrapesdirect.com - I’ve had a super great experience with them. They have Livermore...

See my latest string...

 

[rødvinselsker]

Update: SG last night at 7 pm last night sitting at 1.054; this morning 7 am it's still sitting at 1.054. I tend to be the guy who likes to solve tough problems, though I would have preferred my first grape experience go a bit smoother. That said, seems many fermentations that get stuck this early are often due to high brix; this one was over 26, in and of itself not that high, but as @crushday pointed out, the top of the container was swelling. So, if that was CO2 from AF due to native yeast, I can only assume it was gobbling up the glucose, leaving mainly fructose.

Got ahead of myself an added EC1118 to try to get things going again, but feel I should have racked it and re-inoculated with Uvaferm 43 RESTART, known as a fructophillic yeast (it works well in stuck fermentations where the remaining sugars are fructose). If the EC1118 doesn't work then I'll try the 43 as a last resort. Past that, it becomes fertilizer :-(

FWIW, here's what I found in case anyone else runs into this issue. The process is cumbersome, but depending on your investment, patience and equipment, may be worth it.