French winemaking term explanation

[zappoid]

On attached link for Youtube video Les vins de Terroir al limits, the guy is saying he stopped doing pigéage (punch down), and started something I did not recognize but sound as carpentier. Maybe someone can explain what winemaking technique they use? Thank you.

 

[hounddawg]

youtube bad,,,, WMT good,
@cmason1957 or @NorCal or @winemaker81 or @sour_grapes ,,,, should be able to answer that, among many others on here,,,
Dawg

 

[zappoid]

youtube bad

Youtube is bad, but guy's wines are really good

 

[sour_grapes]

youtube bad,,,, WMT good,
@cmason1957 or @NorCal or @winemaker81 or @sour_grapes ,,,, should be able to answer that, among many others on here,,,
Dawg

No, your choice here would be @Cynewulf . And I think we have another francophone oenophile aboard, but I cannot recall whom.

 

[vinny]

youtube bad,,,, WMT good,

Leave no room for misunderstanding!

 

[winemanden]

charpenté
Structure Translations for „Structure“
Designation (also architecture, skeleton, framework) for the overall picture of a wine in terms of taste and smell in the context of a wine approach. The structure is the sum of the diverse components in the wine (see also under total extract). These are mainly acids, tannins, colouring agents and residual sugar, as well as the alcohol content. Such a wine is also often described with the adjective "grippy" (or "with grip"). In a complex way, these substances can support and positively enhance each other, but they can also paralyse and thus cancel each other out. In a more or less harmonious way, they merge into an overall picture and give the wine its personality. Ideally, the result is a balanced relationship between all the components. The terms body and texture are to be understood somewhat less comprehensively.

 

[zappoid]

charpenté
Structure Translations for „Structure“
Designation (also architecture, skeleton, framework) for the overall picture of a wine in terms of taste and smell in the context of a wine approach. The structure is the sum of the diverse components in the wine (see also under total extract). These are mainly acids, tannins, colouring agents and residual sugar, as well as the alcohol content. Such a wine is also often described with the adjective "grippy" (or "with grip"). In a complex way, these substances can support and positively enhance each other, but they can also paralyse and thus cancel each other out. In a more or less harmonious way, they merge into an overall picture and give the wine its personality. Ideally, the result is a balanced relationship between all the components. The terms body and texture are to be understood somewhat less comprehensively.

So, how to translate "100% charpenté without pigéage"?

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I think it's likely to be grappe entiere - whole cluster.

 

[oenophilosopher]

I think it's likely to be grappe entiere - whole cluster.

Correct, “en grappe entière”, which implies “whole cluster”, or more often referred to as “whole bunch”. Typically this term without the use of “pigeage” implies ”macération carbonique” as the main fermentative technique. The argument is out as to what level of carbonic maceration is full or 100% CM, as there are varying levels to employ; but listening to the late great Marcel Lapierre’s definition: full carbonic maceration requires an enclosed, anaerobic atmosphere using specifically CO2 gas to sparge the chamber (as CO2 permeates the membrane of the grape skins and creates an intracellular protection from O2) and subsequently draining any collected juice from the weight of the grapes for the first few days. It’s then up to the winemaker to decide whether to deliberate temperature change or “remontage” (pumping over/aerating), or when to press. But Mssr. Lapierre stated that it would take approximately 3 weeks or longer for the berries to “desiccate” (a term I believe he made up specifically for this particular concept) wherein the tannins/colors/anthocyanins are drawn inward from skin to pulp, thereby changing the once translucent pulp into a dark, near fluorescent extraction.
Carbonic Maceration has many faces, but Dominik Huber utilizing it in Priorato and limiting new oak (alongside the infamous Eben Sadie of SA) was a bold move for which he was chastised by local peers, until they realized the exceptional quality produced over the years.

 

[winemaker81]

@winemanden, thanks for the definition as I'd have not figured it out from the way the word was pronounced in the video. Unfortunately, knowing the spelling and the meaning didn't help in figuring out how it applies to winemaking.

I found "vin charpenté" means "robust wine" or "well structured wine", which wasn't of any help.

@BarrelMonkey, that makes sense in this context, e.g., if not doing punch down, whole cluster makes sense.

EDIT: @oenophilosopher, thanks for the explanation. I assume the video isn't talking about anaerobic carbonic maceration; AFAIK, that is the process for making Beaujolais Nouveau.

 

[oenophilosopher]

I assume the video isn't talking about anaerobic carbonic maceration; AFAIK, that is the process for making Beaujolais Nouveau.

Carbonic maceration is inherently anaerobic. The distinction I was referring to was full carbonic maceration vs partial; ie- sparging with inert gas and draining free-run juice vs whole cluster foot-tread with partial whole berries.
I’ve worked with and visited producers world-wide who utilize partial to full carbonic maceration; it’s not delimited to Beaujolais. Beaujolais nouveau is merely bottling post-ferment, often pre-malo for same vintage release. Most of which is total plonk (thanks Deboeuf and Jadot!) but there are exquisite versions of nouveau as well.
Burgundy, Rhône, Loire, Languedoc, etc all have producers working with full carbonic maceration, as does Oregon, California, Italy, Australia and SA.

 

[winemaker81]

@oenophilosopher, thanks for the clarification. I didn't express myself well -- this is not a technique I have personal experience with, and there are nuances I am certainly not familiar with.

Based upon my understanding of Beaujolais Nouveau, I was under the impression that CM produced very short lived wines. Deboeuf and Jadot are plonk, so I've not purchased more than 1 bottle per year, and have been disappointed (didn't purchase this year). I need to research.

 

[winemanden]

@winemanden, thanks for the definition as I'd have not figured it out from the way the word was pronounced in the video. Unfortunately, knowing the spelling and the meaning didn't help in figuring out how it applies to winemaking.

I found "vin charpenté" means "robust wine" or "well structured wine", which wasn't of any help.

@BarrelMonkey, that makes sense in this context, e.g., if not doing punch down, whole cluster makes sense.

EDIT: @oenophilosopher, thanks for the explanation. I assume the video isn't talking about anaerobic carbonic maceration; AFAIK, that is the process for making Beaujolais Nouveau.

I have no idea of the method as I only make Country wines. I just looked it up in the wine lexicon on wein.plus. I can't be certain that's what it was, but that was the only one approx to what you wrote.

 

[Cynewulf]

No, your choice here would be @Cynewulf . And I think we have another francophone oenophile aboard, but I cannot recall whom.

Sorry I’m late, but concur with the others who said he’s saying ‘grappes entières.’ A little hard to understand since he’s speaking French with a German accent.

 

[winemanden]

Sorry I’m late, but concur with the others who said he’s saying ‘grappes entières.’ A little hard to understand since he’s speaking French with a German accent.

I didn't watch the video, but yes, grappes entières means whole bunches.

 

[hounddawg]

YAWL, YES,, YAWL Drive me to drink, but i still ain't chipping in on the gasoline,,,
Dawg

 

[vinny]

YAWL, YES,, YAWL Drive me to drink, but i still ain't chipping in on the gasoline,,,
Dawg

We are just happy to be your inspiration!

 

[winemaker81]

YAWL, YES,, YAWL Drive me to drink, but i still ain't chipping in on the gasoline

what gasoline? that trip is probably 3 steps at most!